PvE and Dungeons Roadmap: October Update

[SuperStar]

Would be fantastic if you can help out the pvp sc team.

This is a pvp game after all or should ve a pvp game…

[ekalime]

When the main replay loops are in desperate attention (sc/rvr) instead of dumping countless hours into T1 dungeons that new players barely even get into, or roleplay cities with no replayability.
Sure T3 dungeon gear set should last longer so more of an argument for players might actually do that, instead of getting their wards from a T3 PQ boost for the ward unlock.

The problem with the T1 dungeon is not the dungeon, it's the gear rewards. If the set was lvl 10-11 tons of ppl would run it and it would be a great addition to T1. But the gear is lower lvl than the RvR set which you get basically for free, so what's the point in running it?

The T1 Dungegon Protector Set is level 10 with 59 stat points (and includes the helm which other T1 sets do not have).
The T1 RvR sets Decimator/Braggart are level 11 with 62 stat points.

[gersy]

pve moment

thanks for the live event schedule though, easily the best part of these notes. glad saga and hexensnacht are returning.

[gisborne]

When the main replay loops are in desperate attention (sc/rvr) instead of dumping countless hours into T1 dungeons that new players barely even get into, or roleplay cities with no replayability.
Sure T3 dungeon gear set should last longer so more of an argument for players might actually do that, instead of getting their wards from a T3 PQ boost for the ward unlock.

The problem with the T1 dungeon is not the dungeon, it's the gear rewards. If the set was lvl 10-11 tons of ppl would run it and it would be a great addition to T1. But the gear is lower lvl than the RvR set which you get basically for free, so what's the point in running it?

The T1 Dungegon Protector Set is level 10 with 59 stat points (and includes the helm which other T1 sets do not have).
The T1 RvR sets Decimator/Braggart are level 11 with 62 stat points.

I meant the equip level. And you confirmed that they are lower lvl than the T1 RvR set which is easy to obtain. Sure, there's a helm, but it's a 3-piece set and you get a helm from T1 lairs anyway.

I forgot to mention that the dungeon requires lvl 9 to get the quests, so by then you are already wearing the T1 RvR set.

[ekalime]

The problem with the T1 dungeon is not the dungeon, it's the gear rewards. If the set was lvl 10-11 tons of ppl would run it and it would be a great addition to T1. But the gear is lower lvl than the RvR set which you get basically for free, so what's the point in running it?

The T1 Dungegon Protector Set is level 10 with 59 stat points (and includes the helm which other T1 sets do not have).
The T1 RvR sets Decimator/Braggart are level 11 with 62 stat points.

I meant the equip level. And you confirmed that they are lower lvl than the T1 RvR set which is easy to obtain. Sure, there's a helm, but it's a 3-piece set and you get a helm from T1 lairs anyway.

I forgot to mention that the dungeon requires lvl 9 to get the quests, so by then you are already wearing the T1 RvR set.

Decimator/Braggart Chest is minimum rank 8; boots/gloves are minimum rank 7.
Protector Chest is minimum rank 8; boots/helm are minimum rank 7.

Quests for Protector gear are minimum rank 2. You can enter the dungeon on a level 2 character and test it.

All PvE sets are an item level lower than PvP.

Maybe some people want to save crests. Maybe they want different set bonuses. There are reasons to run it. If you don't want to run it that is your choice.

[gisborne]

Maybe some people want to save crests. Maybe they want different set bonuses. There are reasons to run it. If you don't want to run it that is your choice.

You can try and justify it all you want, but by all appearances from my experience in T1 no one runs it. I shared why I believe that to be the case. I assume that devs care about people using the content they develop, but who knows.

I tested it with a lvl 6 character and you are correct, I can pick up the quests and enter the instance. The mobs are lvl 10 though, so doing it at lvl 6-7 might be hard. Perhaps I thought it was lvl 9 because of the patch notes (viewtopic.php?t=54527):

"A brand new Tier 1 Dungeon has been permanently added to the game! Dragonback Pass is a new dungeon for players Level 9-11, and features three new bosses that are each aimed at teaching new players key game mechanics, both for PvE and also the game's PvP modes."

[Rubius]

Round 2 of replies! Picking up where we left off...

Thanks for the heads up! Always appreciated with communication and transparency.

One question though, for some clarification.
What is the LOTD goal? Will it be to get rid of the current RvR gamemode and then go back to the Live-like PQ map?

No plans to remove the weekly RvR battles in LOTD. The current idea is to keep the weekly battle and then open it for the PvE version the other 99% of the time when it would normally be closed. There's still some work to be done to ensure we can build this properly (what if you exit a Tomb/TOVL while the fight is going on? etc), but that's the goal.

This is great news.

I hope that LOD will regain its former glory and that you will restore this zone to its former, only correct small-scale character.
This zergfest that is currently taking place is terrible.
It is definitely the worst content in the game.
Thank you for your enormous contribution to the best MMO .

Appreciate the support! As mentioned above, it'll likely be a mix: the current large-scale fights still happen once a week, but the other 99% of the time the zone becomes a hybrid PvE + Open RvR map where fights of any size can occur.

I'm glad Gunbad will get some of its mechanics back, it's a pretty boring run nowadays. It should however retain its "entry-level T4 PvE dungeon feel" without being overly difficult as some of the fights used to be on its first relaunch.

Also as far as Bastion will be concerned (and its heavy aggro swap mechanics), I would like to see something being worked on. Currently (and for quite a while now), the aggro metrics seems to be broken.

Anyway, thanks for your work PvE team, can't wait to see LoTD also back in its former glory!

I agree, and think Gunbad will be in a good spot soon. Now that we've established some of the hardest mechanics we want players to do in Lost Vale, it makes it easy to work backwards and slowly introduce easier pieces of those mechanics in earlier Dungeons. So for new players, they're gradually learning the mechanics that will someday get layered as they progress towards LV.

For Bastion, I believe that's a general aggro change in the code. They changed it a year or two ago so that you'll need to pull slightly more than the total aggro of a boss if it has already swapped targets once before. I believe this was done to help reduce lord ping-ponging in RvR Keeps / Forts, but agree it would be nice if Dungeons could avoid that part of the code entirely so add-ons like Aggrometer are always accurate.

As always, great work by the PVE team.

Is the itemization a pve team, balance team or possibly a shared responsibility? Alot of fundamental mechanics have changed without sets beeing redesigned. I hope for something more than just a stat normalization of existing sets.

Good question! Right now it's a bit shared, with one of our staff members who really loves excel sheets taking on the majority of it with others helping him. When building the new Darkpromise sets, they also worked closely with the balance team to share ideas on set bonuses, so in many cases, it's collaborative.

[Bozao]

Good job. We hope they remember to fix the SC queue system when they announce PvP, which is awful. Always Pre vs Pug...

[Newchop]

Gunbad is good as it is now. No need to change there anything.

[nocturnalguest]

The team is working now on itemization for Tier 4, so they'll be reviewing all the end-game sets soon and adjusting any outliers. In some cases, some sets or armor pieces have far more or fewer stats than they should - Lost Vale is on the mark, so you can use that as a general litmus test to see how much others may change.

First of all i'd love to also join everyone giving out a big "Thank you lads". Work being done on PvE is very nicely done.

However, on this part, all the teams that touch itemization past conq/domi era failed incredibly huge. Conq/domi "adjustement" when vanq/opp was realised havent done anything good and done only damage in future, widening the gaps and making catch-up/newcomer life as bad as possible. Bloodlord vs invader was done bad, for some classes either of those shine, for some either or those is plain useless.

I do know for a fact that you guys are on to nerfing preDP gear. And doing this you will only widen the gaps. Thats a very bad thing to do. If everything lower tiers items are to buffed instead (and there has been tons of feedback about that, e.g. Bombling wrote literally an issue on why newcomer experience is that awful and why transaction into T4 is so painful). You've done great job with DP, literally on some classes one can even opt out for an alt toon to farm BiS with those. Thats great, its also great that with dedicated group you can easily just be full DP being ~rr40. Thats how progression should be. Other option is you go modern path, introduce seasons and stuff, but us, lazy daddies wont like that. Feature of being able to go MIA for years and then log back and still be relevant for PvP is one of the reasons why i never drop RoR.

Proper approach and design should include you modeling gearing routes, and those should be adequate (and effecient timewise). You mention touching Gunbad, but at the moment problem is not mechanics (or lack of), but rather grindy nature of getting a first conq ward. I always advice people to not bother with Gunbad cause of timesink, its much more effecient to buy conq and then do upper wards grind.
Gunbad either needs to be without any lockouts or something. Or i believe mobs&bosses should be tuned down so it should be completed within an hour by a full /5 group of below 40 (=it should be close to impossible to fail there). At the moment its a boring chore.

P.S. Ive done first Gunbad, before any nerfs to it, that was challenging and great back then (sadly the world didnt see the so often claimed (peterthepan3) 1,5h run in full anni/merc group, haha, i still believe it wasnt even possible), but it very very fast became boring. Also just for the fact of none existing achievement, without any system (like we have now in LV) we managed to 4men last boss. Just because we wanted. After nerfs we've tried to duo whole thing, and that was fun. We've 6men order cale ch22 (not current) and been doing some other very stupid and unnecesary things. If anything, its better to go this modern route - thinktank some stupid close to unrealistic achievements that gonna be hardcore, but on a regular runs, its much better to simplify them.
Getting your first T4 set should be pretty close to automatic