Steatlh discussion

[Sulorie]

Watched this scene in an endless loop and the statement remains.
PoS came a quite late, he almost missed the WH. It dealt damage as the WH was halfway visible (->unknown target in combatlog), then he casted ID on his target.

[nydig]

out of the fray... .

Pretty sure stealth is not meant to do that.

Aside from some weird design philosophy I can't see why not.

WH/WE don't have any for of real escape beside the good old root/snare immunity into flee until level 40, and even that ability is unreliable compared to what other MDPS have access to.

I just don't feel like WH/WE have much of a real place in ORvR aside from ganking people who are out of position or alone, certainly the worst class for keep D/Atk which is a pretty big part of the game. WH come into their own in T4 for sc groups, not too sure about WE I think they get overshadowed too much by choppa/mara in that sense.

Making some of their mechanics more reliable or usable at a higher frequency I think would help with their viability over other classes that fill their slots. I'm not trying to say the classes are in a bad state like engineer in t4 though.

I don't remember how it was at Low levels but agile escape was amazingly strong most didn't use it to pull potential. With proper timing not only could it be used as a escape it could be used as a ghetto pounce and even better you were immune to wl pull and could reverse the direction of knock backs mid air.

I'd also argue that both the we and wh could bring things to any group they just lacked aoe for bomb groups.

[talissera]

At this moment stealth is broken on keeps. Keep guards attack while I'm crawling in stealth. And I don't remember that such issue was on live. Most of time it occures in the Lord room or before it on front lane.

[bwdaWAR]

How does this initiative check work, exactly? And more importantly, what can a WE/WH do to decrease the chance of being detected? If that's even possible...

[drmordread]

Stealth should only be broken by direct damage. I remember running through sorc puddles and not breaking. Also it did get fixed so that pet damage ceased if you managed to stealth.

Initiative does not break stealth. It allows you to spot a ghostly image of the stealther. As long as your Init rolls beat the stealther rolls you see it and can attack. But if you lose just one roll (I do not know the frequency of rolls in the game design), you lose sight of stealther and any attacks started do not complete.

So, currently YES, stealth is broken. I understand all the non stealth squishies think it is fine, since you get a 50-50 chance now of attacking a stealther first, but this does not make you good. Just makes you into someone lucky because stealth is bugged.

[Mialath]

I don't remember how it was at Low levels but agile escape was amazingly strong most didn't use it to pull potential. With proper timing not only could it be used as a escape it could be used as a ghetto pounce and even better you were immune to wl pull and could reverse the direction of knock backs mid air.

I'd also argue that both the we and wh could bring things to any group they just lacked aoe for bomb groups.

This. A good WE/WH could get out of places, but you had to know when and be ready for things to go to hell. Good situational awareness is a key for that, and knowing how to read the fights. Of course there's not much you can do about a sudden zerg rounding the corner in Praag, but that's just learning where not to fight.

WE/WH were great for groups, either harassing healers/squishies with a tank, or assisting/being MA to just wreck people, or even some of the better ones (Nydig included, from what I saw on Baddielands) could just wreak havoc on the backlines without any assisting. And then when people turn to go after you, Agile away. The down side is that Agile and Declare are level 40 abilities. My favorite was to Agile off of a cliff, or down a hill to get some more distance before landing, and hit dat stag cloak for my escape. That and being able to attack without using stealth (having a good hiding spot) so that you could gtfo in stealth before everyone else found you.

WE/WH have always been one of those classes that it's easy to be alright or good at, but to be great, you need to learn all the little tricks or you're just gunna get squished over and over again.

[Tesq]

At this moment stealth is broken on keeps. Keep guards attack while I'm crawling in stealth. And I don't remember that such issue was on live. Most of time it occures in the Lord room or before it on front lane.

on live mobs always ingore stealth target, you could had pass onto it and he would had not see you. Some bosses also could bug due to this.

[wender88]

At this moment stealth is broken on keeps. Keep guards attack while I'm crawling in stealth. And I don't remember that such issue was on live. Most of time it occures in the Lord room or before it on front lane.

on live mobs always ingore stealth target, you could had pass onto it and he would had not see you. Some bosses also could bug due to this.

Pretty sure that on live, the aggro range was 5 feet, when in stealth. Thats why you could bypass alot of mobs. You couldnt run through them in stealth.

[Tesq]

mm i remember i used to stealth and hit mobs from behind that wouldn't be possible if it worked that way. Maybe there was some kind of initiative check?

[wender88]

mm i remember i used to stealth and hit mobs from behind that wouldn't be possible if it worked that way. Maybe there was some kind of initiative check?

There might have been some kind of delay on them detecting you, or maybe its the initiative check getting us confused. But you sure could aggro mobs in stealth, just not when staying out of melee range.