Improving the 2H blackguard playstyle

[Luth]

like ID procs?

As stated 5 feet is obviously melee range.
The old 65 feet shatter confidence would be an example for a class ability, if it hadn't been fixed to 5 feet range.
Or pounce would be a fitting example too (even if it is "special").
Pistol shots and dagger throws also, as WH/WE are dedicated melee classes too.

[TenTonHammer]

So at this point it seems that this thread has tilted in the direction of "give 2h bg more dmg not cc" to that extent it seems we have mainly crimson death and blade of ruin to work with to modifiy.

Now first thing we can do is change the number of wounds debuffed by hastened doom in my opinion. Mara has a 5s CD 20s duration debuff with no requirement that right now in sav spec up to draining swipes debuffs around 1.3K hp while bgs that requires crit only debuffs around 1K hp , i feel these 2 amounts should be switched so that bg will have the higest wounds debuff amount in the game (im not sure how the scaling is between HD and TB through out the game but im sure TB's value is always consistently higher).


Next like stated CD should be increased to 10s for potential 100% uptime and crit chance inc to 15-20% to counter act kotbs grp crit.

Blade of ruin should be turned into a much more meaningful ability with one of the requirements changed to be 2h only (so that its something unique to 2h playstyle)

[Bozzax]

like ID procs?

As stated 5 feet is obviously melee range.
The old 65 feet shatter confidence would be an example for a class ability, if it hadn't been fixed to 5 feet range.
Or pounce would be a fitting example too (even if it is "special").
Pistol shots and dagger throws also, as WH/WE are dedicated melee classes too.

I'm all for ID proc when Slayer is within 5 feet of me

When the slayer is not within 5 feet no procs seems about right as they are melee

[Shadowgurke]

So at this point it seems that this thread has tilted in the direction of "give 2h bg more dmg not cc" to that extent it seems we have mainly crimson death and blade of ruin to work with to modifiy.

Now first thing we can do is change the number of wounds debuffed by hastened doom in my opinion. Mara has a 5s CD 20s duration debuff with no requirement that right now in sav spec up to draining swipes debuffs around 1.3K hp while bgs that requires crit only debuffs around 1K hp , i feel these 2 amounts should be switched so that bg will have the higest wounds debuff amount in the game (im not sure how the scaling is between HD and TB through out the game but im sure TB's value is always consistently higher).

First of all, I don't think nerfing Marauder is the way to buff BG. Secondly, some numbers are off. BG debuffs 120 base. Marauder debuffs 80 if specced into TF. If you go up to Cuttling Claw, you debuff 118. I think it was you who suggested Marauders to spec into Brutality to get Guillotine at that point. Only by speccing only into Sav you get 132. Also, lets not forget that HD also gives 50% attackspeed. If CD gets a buff, triggering on Crit should not be much worse than an anytimer debuff.

[Jaycub]

So at this point it seems that this thread has tilted in the direction of "give 2h bg more dmg not cc" to that extent it seems we have mainly crimson death and blade of ruin to work with to modifiy.

Now first thing we can do is change the number of wounds debuffed by hastened doom in my opinion. Mara has a 5s CD 20s duration debuff with no requirement that right now in sav spec up to draining swipes debuffs around 1.3K hp while bgs that requires crit only debuffs around 1K hp , i feel these 2 amounts should be switched so that bg will have the higest wounds debuff amount in the game (im not sure how the scaling is between HD and TB through out the game but im sure TB's value is always consistently higher).


Next like stated CD should be increased to 10s for potential 100% uptime and crit chance inc to 15-20% to counter act kotbs grp crit.

Blade of ruin should be turned into a much more meaningful ability with one of the requirements changed to be 2h only (so that its something unique to 2h playstyle)

I think you are asking for way too much, the wounds debuff is honestly just a tacked onto an already good tactic as some kind of weird afterthought, no need for it be buffed in any way because destro already has access to so many of them it doesn't really matter.

CD just needs to last 10 seconds period, when you start asking for 15% more crit you are getting into territory where BG is completely overshadowing BO in terms of what they can do for a group (as if that is not already the case). The only thing I could see being added to the skill aside for the potential 100% up time is the addition of an undefendable modifier to the skill to make it more reliable... there is just too much RNG in this game. Whether that undefendable modifier has a requirement like 100 hatred or not.

Blade of ruins damage should be made to scale with hatred similar to cave in and deal significantly more damage than it does now at 100 hatred, don't make it require 2H or your pigeon hole s/b players into 2 trees exclusively. There is also a nice balance here, while s/b will deal less damage with the skill they will have it up more reliably thanks to block being relevant in many more situations than parry finds itself. But the main thing should be if the skill requires not only a reaction, but also scales with hatred it should be in that right very strong when used properly, and not the totally lackluster state it is in now.

With these 2 changes I can really see 2H black guard becoming something you could argue is better over s/b in terms of what you gain for dropping the KD.

I am sure a lot of this stuff are things that can wait for major t4 balance changes, but maybe in the mean time we can get 10 sec long crimson deaths? :^)

[Coryphaus]

I'm not asking for 15-20% MORE on top of the 10% already there

I' meant that the chance should be 15-20 instead of 10%

In retrospect I agree with you about the wounds topic

Also I like the idea of making it undefendable

[Jaycub]

I guess I worded myself wrong as well, even at 15% increased crit you start straddling a fine line of OP.

There are in game examples on other classes that support the idea to make CD last 10 seconds, and also to make it undefendable. But when we look for examples of 15% or even 20% crit chance increases you find that they have major drawbacks, in the case of the knight it cost them 2 tactic slots, they have to use a certain aura that honestly sucks, and 10% of that crit they do not receive themselves. In the case of the SW group crit buff, again they do not benefit from it themselves and it takes a tactic slot.

An undefendable crimson death, with 10 second duration of 10% increased chance to be crit is very strong, deserving of a 13 point ability and trade off between the 5 sec KD. It gives BG a debuff that is lacking on destro and wanted in groups, not something that is "oh well chosen already does that with auras XD". Asking for anymore is just too much.

[Azarael]

Given that Crimson Death has been sitting at 10 seconds ever since it came out and nobody complained about it, I am on board for making it a legitimate 10 seconds. It just has to go through this process first.

[Luth]

like ID procs?

As stated 5 feet is obviously melee range.
The old 65 feet shatter confidence would be an example for a class ability, if it hadn't been fixed to 5 feet range.
Or pounce would be a fitting example too (even if it is "special").
Pistol shots and dagger throws also, as WH/WE are dedicated melee classes too.

I'm all for ID proc when Slayer is within 5 feet of me

When the slayer is not within 5 feet no procs seems about right as they are melee

Slayer ID is no item proc, but: Deal.

Spoiler:

I would have also accepted the removal of the whole aoe component. But to late for that now m8

P.S.: i'm a strong supporter of mirroring slayer abilities to the choppa, so...

[Warpes]

I always felt like going 2h = no KD, was a fair tradeoff. On live even in T4, 2h BG when specced properly not only bring a hefty amount of dmg and excellent debuffs to melee trains, but can also be backline destroyers who live to tell about it. All despite already having no KD...

I think as far as "damage" goes a lot of people are basing it on T3 perhaps, where most of BG 2h dmg is missing (from Malice tree). Although I didn't read through all 37 pages, so disregard if this isn't the case.

As far as I'm concerned though 2h BG are more than 'ok' as is. However, as long as you leave my 5s SnB KD alone, you can buff BG however you like