Siege weapons

[drmordread]

Last night in DW;
That was NOT a battle. Battles involve entire WB's fighting out in the open, not keeps. A siege excludes a quarter of the games population, the mdps. Tanks can fight, healers can heal, rdps can range enemy .... mdps dies and provides RR to opposite side with medallions, gear and renown.

Something else

In a previous comment on this thread AZ said that if and when the enemy gets to your keep, you have already lost the zone.
As much as hunkering down in a keep is boring (TO ME), it is the last viable option a defender, with less numbers, has to hold a zone. In the "old classic" WAR, one wb can hold out and save a zone vs 2 wb's, if they defend their keep properly with single shot siege and aoe siege working together. From what I am reading, the new system is taking that away, centering all fighting in the lakes, making it rely on holding BO's (to have siege).

So the faction with the 2 WB's will ALWAYS win against the faction with the one WB. Unless the one WB splits into two groups and tries to ninja a bo here and there? TBH I can not even think of how to defend with this new system, there does not seem to be an option to defend a zone, unless you have the numbers, and if you have the numbers, why defend when you can take?


Back to the OP... Siege ....

My current fear is that this is going to become a game of "Who has the siege?".

The group with the siege weapons will prosper, get more rr, more medallions, better gear, etc. The majority of people will not have siege, they will not prosper.
So what will happen (in my opinion) is that 2 to 3 groups from both factions, controlling the siege, will be running around the lakes, blasting everyone else apart with roving towed artillery. More people will be sitting in war camps than now.

Even now you see it. People running into zones, setting up siege, then hiding it or towing all over the place with them. The people who do this, are already either 50RR or close to it. Those who fight the lakes and get to the battles (unfortunately centered around keeps only) as they start, have no option to set up siege and reap any major rewards.

So, I am not sold on this new version of WAR. I do not see it as an improvement. Will I give it a shot? Sure, I do not have a choice. It is either play it or not play WAR at all.

[bctakhy]

Remove xp, renow, inf gain and medals gain from siege weapons dmg. U only get it from other group / WB dmg / kill. Fixed. No more battles for sieges weapons. No more solo on sieges.

[lawfol]

lol,I know to implement it is hard or even impossible for the "traitor" amrk, but I love the "hang by the neck" idea...will bring witch hunters back into RVR
We really need commissars in fantasy warhammer,far better than Sigmarines

[Sejanus]

I didn't read all 5 pages of this post, but in what I did read, there was a lot of good points on siege. I think a lot of people either weren't there for, or don't remember the days on retail where keeps had to rank up. BOs spawned resource carriers that ran to the keep to slowly level it up, the higher stars the keep had, the more it'd unlock defensively and offensively. The old keep gun emplacements, two ST cannons on the fore turrets, two AoE cannons next to the gatehouse, would be nice because they offered fixed defences, and like was previously mentioned, a force multiplier to help with numbers. A few could stand against many and harass and slow them down sometimes in time for your main reinforcements to arrive. Siege is a REQUIREMENT in this game, I believe they are underused, probably due to their cost in gold, rather then the ordnance pickups (which I think should be reintroduced, some of us are paupers). I think the towing mechanic is a nice touch, but should be activated at purchase from the keep, i.e you can only tow from your keep to enemy keep. The placement griefing and amount of siege could be affected by the aforementioned keep ranks and the old siege pads from retail back in the day. I know ammunition was mentioned and in a sense, on retail it was implemented as all siege's hp bars would go down a minor amount every time they were fired, and had to be repaired or "reloaded" by up to 4 people when they were low which also made them vulnerable. They also had a timer of 60 seconds if they weren't fired, you would be kicked off.

[Wuhh]

Remove xp, renow, inf gain and medals gain from siege weapons dmg. U only get it from other group / WB dmg / kill. Fixed. No more battles for sieges weapons. No more solo on sieges.

This would mean they become tools for defence and dispersal. Not taps for renown. And since they require little skill to operate, the non-reward would reflect this.

[Gerv]

We made a killing in DW, 950 kills to 500ish, and we were attacking a keep. The siege has its place, it demolishes the infantry. Bringing the fight off the keep and into the lakes, whether that is in the BOs or the lake itself, is better then sidelining a "quarter of the population".

[Eathisword]

...
Second part: The fight will mainly be at BOs, at towed siege weapons (wherever they are) and wherever else you find yourself. The point is to emulate more the flow in a RTS. If you sit in your base, you lose map control, you get outproduced, you die. BOs represent map control, siege weapons are what you produce and the keep is the base.

If you manage to pull that off, splitting people out of the keeps and into the zones that is, no matter how (siege weapons, resources, free cookies, doesn't matter to me), it'll be a great game. You have the right target in mind.

About free cookies, I understand that leeching/xrealming is a problem that needs to be dealt with... but to me, it is a lesser evil then a stale campaign and dead lakes, where the top renown guys are people that sit on canons 24/7. So I say, if you have good ideas about realm bonus, BO bonus, etc. go ahead with them.

[magicthighs]

That's precisely what I'm talking about, and it was a huge problem on mythic's servers.

And since you claim I make this argument every time rewards are mentioned, I guess you won't have trouble linking some examples. I'm waiting.

Sure, here is one viewtopic.php?f=15&t=13664&start=40#p155665

Here is two viewtopic.php?f=42&t=14046&hilit=freebi ... 30#p153693

And here is three viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12221&hilit=renown ... 30#p131776

With the one here it would be four, i guess its enough.

Literally NONE of those say what you claim I've said over and over again. Not a single one. Please stop misrepresenting what people say.

When you reduce his whole argument to a sentiment of people wanting to leech locks, you are using a fallacy, his post was not about "hey lets bring back leeching" it was about how most players dont play this mmo or most mmos with the thought of it being work, is just something they play for a few hours, progress a little and come back later at some point. You reduced it to him wanting leeching back. Stop with that.

The post I replied to literally referred to leeching locks back on mythic's servers. AFKing or doing scenarios until there was a keep siege (or city siege for that matter), joining a pug WB at said keep (or taking your 6 man sc group to the city siege), then leave it again after the keep or city was taken.
And before you reply that they're not guarding mailboxes but actually taking a keep, most casual players didn't do that after they got all the annihilator gear they wanted, and my experience with casual players on this server tells me that the exact same thing would happen here.

[bloodi]

Literally NONE of those say what you claim I've said over and over again. Not a single one. Please stop misrepresenting what people say.

"Hey show me where i said that" "Here, here and here" "No i did not say that there".

Great, this was so productive.

The post I replied to literally referred to leeching locks back on mythic's servers. AFKing or doing scenarios until there was a keep siege (or city siege for that matter), joining a pug WB at said keep (or taking your 6 man sc group to the city siege), then leave it again after the keep or city was taken.
And before you reply that they're not guarding mailboxes but actually taking a keep, most casual players didn't do that after they got all the annihilator gear they wanted, and my experience with casual players on this server tells me that the exact same thing would happen here.

The post you replied to refers to people afking in 1 on his points, one, doesnt even mention leeching, just talks abouw what the average player does.

You reduced it to leeching, that is misrepresenting, that is reducing his whole point to the absurd so you can disregard it entirely.

He talks about the average player not wanting to do complicated stuff, he talks about how they are not interested in meddling in tactics or joining a guild group, how usually they are reward driven and how they usually enjoy those zerg ping pong fest from wc to wc that have no tactics in them, just mindless back and forth with few rewards but with rewards at least.

He mentions this because he thinks the new system will have no place for such people, who mind you are a good % of the population and fears that the server will suffer for it.

What you got out of it? He wants leeching back because he mentioned players leeching locks.

And then you tell me to not misrepresent stuff.

I'm sorry to say some people will always miss out, especially in a game that simply requires a lot of hours spent to get somewhere. As this is an MMORPG, those who have more time, have more opportunity in the game. Hours spent should equal to how good you are, be it gear wise, renown rank wise, or skill wise.

The sentiment is more related to people who are not in groups or are just casual in their play, when you have no option for them because they are simple cattle that the siege equipment devours, they dont just switch their playstile, they stop playing, a good chunk of your playerbase just goes to orvr and pugs without much thought, i cant see why making it a game not for them to play is a good idea.

[peterthepan3]

A good chunk of your playerbase just goes to orvr and pugs without much thought, i cant see why making it a game not for them to play is a good idea

Noone is saying that they can't, but as Ryan said: in a proper PvP mmo, you must put in work to reap the rewards. If we want a game that promotes competitive and active PvP as opposed to leeching and choosing the path of least resistance, then we must prioritise certain methods of play over others.