Archmage/Shaman

[NSKaneda]

Crit chance can be high but which TWO crit tactic?

Extra special shrooms + Ain't done yet + resto burst combo (ESS for crit boost and other two benefiting from it).

ADetaunt is more of an insurance tactic anyway, second one to go in wb tactic setup but it covers initial morale boost exposure nicely and synergizes with Stop hittin most of the time.

[Bozzax]

DOKs, WPs, Zeles, RPs heal more and handle pressure better in a group setting.

AM/Shmy ace solo play and are annoying 1v1 but as long as you are 2+ and of equal skill you should be able to win. Top 1-10 AM or Shmys can kite an uncoordinated group and sometimes succeed which causes headlines but 99% of them aren't skilled enough to pull it off.

I think BW/Sorc beeing free renown 1v1 adds to AM/Shmy being played as the "go to Magic RDPS".

[Caduceus]

They are not tanky and they heal nothing with a littlebit more than 200 willpower and -40% healing. You maybe mean lifeleech which itself isn't hard to counter either. Cleanse, absorb, challenge, guard, disrupt or detaunt are your options.

They are tanky. Whether that survivability comes from HP, absorb shields, lifetaps, etc. is not relevant at all. All those things increase effective health pool and should be regarded accordingly. To further compound the problem AM/Shaman also has AP drain and AM has some of the strongest utility options in game, for example a 5 second silence.

The "counters" you listed mean nothing without context, but also fundamentally miss the point. There's no reason AM/Shaman should have DPS that rivals dedicated DPS classes, while having none of the drawbacks said DPS classes have, while at the same time having huge advantages over said classes in the form of very strong self-healing and utility.

I expected more substance from a user with 5k+ posts. You sound like the umteenth AM/Shaman who is trying to find excuses for why it's acceptable they're hopelessly imbalanced in small-scale.

[agemennon675]

How to balance Shaman/AM dps ? Reduce their healing cast to 0 in dps spec so they also need team play to perform

[ByzantineTime]

They are not tanky and they heal nothing with a littlebit more than 200 willpower and -40% healing. You maybe mean lifeleech which itself isn't hard to counter either. Cleanse, absorb, challenge, guard, disrupt or detaunt are your options.

They are tanky. Whether that survivability comes from HP, absorb shields, lifetaps, etc. is not relevant at all. All those things increase effective health pool and should be regarded accordingly. To further compound the problem AM/Shaman also has AP drain and AM has some of the strongest utility options in game, for example a 5 second silence.

The "counters" you listed mean nothing without context, but also fundamentally miss the point. There's no reason AM/Shaman should have DPS that rivals dedicated DPS classes, while having none of the drawbacks said DPS classes have, while at the same time having huge advantages over said classes in the form of very strong self-healing and utility.

I expected more substance from a user with 5k+ posts. You sound like the umteenth AM/Shaman who is trying to find excuses for why it's acceptable they're hopelessly imbalanced in small-scale.

For a dps sham/AM to have those numbers, they must use build that they can't heal at all, and their dps isn't on par like rest of dps class because rest of dps classes get better burst. and am/sham don't have the aoe.
Only people that run the full dps sham/am builds, are useless 1v1, they just snipe kills from a far in zergs that's all.

But I don't know if you watch shield doks, those guys are completely broken, they get damage as a dps class ( in numbers ) , and heal 2-3 times more than everyone else. ( not sure if their mirror shield wp as broken as them )

[Nekkma]

They are not tanky and they heal nothing with a littlebit more than 200 willpower and -40% healing. You maybe mean lifeleech which itself isn't hard to counter either. Cleanse, absorb, challenge, guard, disrupt or detaunt are your options.

They are tanky. Whether that survivability comes from HP, absorb shields, lifetaps, etc. is not relevant at all. All those things increase effective health pool and should be regarded accordingly. To further compound the problem AM/Shaman also has AP drain and AM has some of the strongest utility options in game, for example a 5 second silence.

The "counters" you listed mean nothing without context, but also fundamentally miss the point. There's no reason AM/Shaman should have DPS that rivals dedicated DPS classes, while having none of the drawbacks said DPS classes have, while at the same time having huge advantages over said classes in the form of very strong self-healing and utility.

I expected more substance from a user with 5k+ posts. You sound like the umteenth AM/Shaman who is trying to find excuses for why it's acceptable they're hopelessly imbalanced in small-scale.

For a dps sham/AM to have those numbers, they must use build that they can't heal at all, and their dps isn't on par like rest of dps class because rest of dps classes get better burst. and am/sham don't have the aoe.
Only people that run the full dps sham/am builds, are useless 1v1, they just snipe kills from a far in zergs that's all.

But I don't know if you watch shield doks, those guys are completely broken, they get damage as a dps class ( in numbers ) , and heal 2-3 times more than everyone else. ( not sure if their mirror shield wp as broken as them )

It feels like people are attributing everything a shaman/am can do to every spec. They see super def healing shaman "tanking" 3-4 subpar dps and think shamans of every spec can do that. They see a glass cannon shaman put out high burts and then think that same shaman could tank those 3-4 enemies.

[Kahelm]

Hey, new player here, AM heal rr63 full vanq.

So i cannot speak about abilities nerf/up but put simply the fact than NSKaneda said before me :

This and blanket nerf on hybrid healing forces AM/SMH to be something they were never intended to be: pure heal/pure dps.

So what's the fact, AM is an hybrid class ?

Ok, i love play hybrid, pretty much fun but the gear is ONLY heal or dps and mix them isn't a good balance at all.

High Magic is scale for an hybrid class, so, if they are a problem i think it is with High Magic before all.

[Nekkma]

Hey, new player here, AM heal rr63 full vanq.

So i cannot speak about abilities nerf/up but put simply the fact than NSKaneda said before me :

This and blanket nerf on hybrid healing forces AM/SMH to be something they were never intended to be: pure heal/pure dps.

So what's the fact, AM is an hybrid class ?

Ok, i love play hybrid, pretty much fun but the gear is ONLY heal or dps and mix them isn't a good balance at all.

High Magic is scale for an hybrid class, so, if they are a problem i think it is with High Magic before all.

Inititally these classes where desigend as some sort of hybrid. Most gear had both int and wp for instance. As it did not work, the hybrid concept got scrapped and gear became more fcused on a specific role.

[Caduceus]

But I don't know if you watch shield doks, those guys are completely broken, they get damage as a dps class ( in numbers ) , and heal 2-3 times more than everyone else. ( not sure if their mirror shield wp as broken as them )

I don't necessarily disagree, but it's a different discussion.

The problem I see here is that people keep getting defensive about their class/faction and use one imbalance to excuse another. That's not how it works. If we want to have a serious discussion, we need to look past our own biases and admit things are imbalanced, even it's about our own faction or class.

[Kahelm]

Inititally these classes where desigend as some sort of hybrid. Most gear had both int and wp for instance. As it did not work, the hybrid concept got scrapped and gear became more fcused on a specific role.

Yes, it is ok of course, i think like u said this descision was the result of numbers of experiences.

But High Magic is clearly based for an hybrid class. So it is on the game since a long way, why doesn't change it ?