WH and WE steath 30 seconds again

[inoeth]

well most WH players avoid me, run away or try to gank me with 3+ other WHs....
so far every one of them died in 1v1... i mean i can understand they grp up, but that has nothing to do with the class or stealth
it's so funny how fast they die in their fancy sov gear lol

interestingly you are not tired of lying and misleading people, although probably when I kill you on my own WH, you say that there were 5+

you dont even know who i am nor have you ever killed me. anyway i was not talking about you, but interesting that you have the feeling that i talked about you lol.

OT: if stealth gets nerfed to 30s then get rid of everybody being able to uncover stealthers.... especially healers can see you from afar, many tanks too. that makes stealth useless in many situations anyway... still i dont think that it would change anything regarding gank groups, it would however promote grouping up even more.

[Sulorie]

On live you usually saw stealth classes beforehand, as they went stealth after seeing you and you saw the flash from the distance. Pretty easy to prepare your defenses and waiting for them to open on you.
Now it is a true surprise attack.

[Lokiusus]

After more consistently playing my WH and WE over the last month, my perspective on the classes have shifted and I think they're probably overturned.

That said, I don't think it's a stealth duration problem:

For WH, I think it's mainly a regen problem (especially with the current 5 tactic bug that I'm sure none of the many regen WHs I see in the lakes are actively abusing). The substantial regen allows WHs to be both impervious to most damage for 10-13 seconds while healing themselves. It also means you have roaming groups of sov WH who don't even need heal or tank support to have sustained fights against vanq-geared 2/2/2 groups while using 4/5 tactic regen and all their escape tools.

For WE, they simply have too many stacking damage increase tactics. The ST dominance of the WE has been shown over and over again in scens, ranked, cities, etc. It performs better than any other ST dps once it has gear.

Some changes I think should be considered:

For WH, I think RB should get changed to a flat 50% parry increase or flat reduced in duration, as well as bullet healing reduced to ~100%. The 5 tactic bug needs to be fixed as it breaks the class. And if theres a decision to leave WE as extremely potent ST, I also think WH may need a slight party-oriented ST buff to compensate.

For WE, it think taste of blood damage boost could get changed to buff another stat. An essentially always active 15% damage boost just pushes them over the top.

For both, I think the chance to have stealth break on AOE needs to come back. This makes the very annoying facestealth escape a little harder to pull off, gives other DPS a counterplay to WH/WE, and at least makes WH/WE use their ~3 minutes of stealth intelligently rather than being able to stroll straight through an ongoing fight onto the back line.

[malark]

(especially with the current 5 tactic bug that I'm sure none of the many regen WHs I see in the lakes are actively abusing).

I honestly don't know how something like that wasn't fixed straight away. It's a strange game for sure sometimes.

[facundo7777]

Nerf stealth classes and buff shamans and ams

Changing stealth is minor issue for those classes.
I dont even know why this post generated so many pages.
I would like to see 30 sec stealth back but in pair cd should be reduced or undetectivness should be inceeased.

Agree with sentence that regen builds ruining solo and small scale experiance.

Wh/we should surprise with high single target burst not be unkillalbe with tons of absorbs, healing and def stats.
Tank should be hard af or more dps while 2h not 2h dps with regen similar to pocket healer xD

[HammerGuy]

My biggest problem is with how stealth is practically unbreakable. Not only do you have to spot the WH/WE in stealth, you also have to hit them, and on top of that it's only a chance to break them out. AoE doesn't break stealth, unless you see the WH/WE as well, and it's still only a chance to break them out.

There is something seriously wrong when I spot a WH in stealth, use a knockdown, hit him a few times, he gets out of the knockdown, and he is still in stealth.

Land mines and daemonic infestations are a detriment to engineers and magi. Sure they will let you know a WH/WE is nearby, but it doesn't break stealth and it gives disarm/knockdown immunity so that if they do pop out they are harder to CC.

If they made stealth easier to counter then I'd be ok with the long duration.

[Mergrim]

Please change back stealth WH WE 30 seconds again. Classes lose their hunting nature. With this new Crest WH and WH system you don't need a group.

Angelica WE 82rr / Witch Hunter 82rr

Stealth is fine now.
-Just need remove free instant stealth+charge from both class.
-Nerf 100% distrupt skill. Morale skill not distrupt already aplied dots, so i don't see any reason why normal skill distrupt both casted, and already ongoin dots.
-Increase Immune from 6sec staggers...to min 30sec.

This class was broken on live and here is even more broken with no reason. Someone who give them tools to escape every combat was drunked.

[Sulorie]

My biggest problem is with how stealth is practically unbreakable. Not only do you have to spot the WH/WE in stealth, you also have to hit them, and on top of that it's only a chance to break them out. AoE doesn't break stealth, unless you see the WH/WE as well, and it's still only a chance to break them out.

There is something seriously wrong when I spot a WH in stealth, use a knockdown, hit him a few times, he gets out of the knockdown, and he is still in stealth.

Land mines and daemonic infestations are a detriment to engineers and magi. Sure they will let you know a WH/WE is nearby, but it doesn't break stealth and it gives disarm/knockdown immunity so that if they do pop out they are harder to CC.

If they made stealth easier to counter then I'd be ok with the long duration.

You are not supposed to counter stealth so easily or their core ability becomes useless.
Seeing them and quickly hitting them multiple times almost only works to remove stealth unless you are very unlucky.
AOE damage removing stealth would invalidate their class mechanic entirely.

When you know as magus/engi that a we/wh is nearby, then this is all you need to know. I mean, you are not alone on some keep wall, no?
You would spec/gear defensively when you roam solo.

[dkill]

Nerf stealth classes and buff shamans and ams

Changing stealth is minor issue for those classes.
I dont even know why this post generated so many pages.
I would like to see 30 sec stealth back but in pair cd should be reduced or undetectivness should be inceeased.

Agree with sentence that regen builds ruining solo and small scale experiance.

Wh/we should surprise with high single target burst not be unkillalbe with tons of absorbs, healing and def stats.
Tank should be hard af or more dps while 2h not 2h dps with regen similar to pocket healer xD

Let's start with small things because the big ones won't change easily. When the steath was 30s there wasn't much or gank of several invis

[HammerGuy]

My biggest problem is with how stealth is practically unbreakable. Not only do you have to spot the WH/WE in stealth, you also have to hit them, and on top of that it's only a chance to break them out. AoE doesn't break stealth, unless you see the WH/WE as well, and it's still only a chance to break them out.

There is something seriously wrong when I spot a WH in stealth, use a knockdown, hit him a few times, he gets out of the knockdown, and he is still in stealth.

Land mines and daemonic infestations are a detriment to engineers and magi. Sure they will let you know a WH/WE is nearby, but it doesn't break stealth and it gives disarm/knockdown immunity so that if they do pop out they are harder to CC.

If they made stealth easier to counter then I'd be ok with the long duration.

You are not supposed to counter stealth so easily or their core ability becomes useless.
Seeing them and quickly hitting them multiple times almost only works to remove stealth unless you are very unlucky.
AOE damage removing stealth would invalidate their class mechanic entirely.

When you know as magus/engi that a we/wh is nearby, then this is all you need to know. I mean, you are not alone on some keep wall, no?
You would spec/gear defensively when you roam solo.

It's not about so easily, it's about something to counter stealth at all. Right now it's rare to break anyone out of stealth. Spotting them in stealth is hard enough, hitting them while keeping them spotted is another part, and then there's hoping that it actually breaks them out is another.

I'm not asking for AoE damage to break stealth, but direct damage on a spotted target should. At the very least a knockdown should break stealth. What sense does it make for them to be knocked down and still in stealth?