Premades oppressive?

[Helwer]

You solo q for a scenario that is open for group, what do you expect, play discordant and you will be qued against solo. What do you expect from groups? Playing blindfolded if facing pugs?

The effort is not in fighting pugs but in building a group, maybe logging what is needed to make the group doable and etabliash a basic communication, all this in a regular sc meant to be for all people willing to join.

Weekend warfront is a karrott to encourage people to do so instead of soloing around. No special items, no fancy skins, no tab on the shoulder, just 75 crests for doing a gamemode that is a little bit more challenging then discordant. Instead of running in a meatgrinder over and over a whole weekend, play discordant, you will get out with more crests then doing warfront and not getting it finished.

We are getting closer to the core. Q is open for solo and groups - and premades on discord will always be far superior to pugs regardless if there is a weekend-warfront or not. Even premade 2/2/2 or in other combos on discord take far more than 50% of wins, almost 100%. Additionally the match-making is poor with no equal number of archetypes. But you still blame the solo-players that are just using one option offered by the game. They should only join discordant, while others are allowed to play all they want. It would be more honest to ask to remove the solo-q except discordant and/or ask for more fights against other premades, but nobody does. Premades are fine with farming pugs over and over with NO effort needed. And they could do so and will do so as long as nothing changes but solo-players leave sc or the game. Warfront was only one example. I remember times other realm stopped qing or logged after getting stomped few times on tuesday, wednesday or thursday as well. No fun to play 10 sc for 10 crests and minimal rr losing time. I'ts most obvious on weekends and that's why we usually discuss the same thing again and again on beautiful mondays.

[Everdin]

Strange how when someone organises group ranked, a lot of the people here wont go - at least admit that you want to farm pugs in scens and not face any real competion.

The only fix for this is the sc matchmaking improvements. Right now scens in a group are boring and scens without one are boring as its just 1 side smashing the other over and over with no real need to use any skills or co-ordination.

As mentioned before there is a difference in being a group, or being able to play ranked:

viewtopic.php?t=53470&start=30#p558152

would you play ranked with a smallmen? Would you play ranked with a group from lfg chat? No? Regular SC is to fill this gap, giving a space for casuals, smallmen, random lfg premades. Nothing against proper matchmaking, but this thread never was about matchmaking, but again a stupid cry for removing all kinds of groups from a gamemode dedicated to them and etablish another gamemode for solos, that are not willing to que the already existing ones.

[Everdin]

You solo q for a scenario that is open for group, what do you expect, play discordant and you will be qued against solo. What do you expect from groups? Playing blindfolded if facing pugs?

The effort is not in fighting pugs but in building a group, maybe logging what is needed to make the group doable and etabliash a basic communication, all this in a regular sc meant to be for all people willing to join.

Weekend warfront is a karrott to encourage people to do so instead of soloing around. No special items, no fancy skins, no tab on the shoulder, just 75 crests for doing a gamemode that is a little bit more challenging then discordant. Instead of running in a meatgrinder over and over a whole weekend, play discordant, you will get out with more crests then doing warfront and not getting it finished.

We are getting closer to the core. Q is open for solo and groups - and premades on discord will always be far superior to pugs regardless if there is a weekend-warfront or not. Even premade 2/2/2 or in other combos on discord take far more than 50% of wins, almost 100%. Additionally the match-making is poor with no equal number of archetypes. But you still blame the solo-players that are just using one option offered by the game. They should only join discordant, while others are allowed to play all they want. It would be more honest to ask to remove the solo-q except discordant and/or ask for more fights against other premades, but nobody does. Premades are fine with farming pugs over and over with NO effort needed. And they could do so and will do so as long as nothing changes but solo-players leave sc or the game. Warfront was only one example. I remember times other realm stopped qing or logged after getting stomped few times on tuesday, wednesday or thursday as well. No fun to play 10 sc for 10 crests and minimal rr losing time. I'ts most obvious on weekends and that's why we usually discuss the same thing again and again on beautiful mondays.

We seem to be on the same side. The target should not be to penalize groups, but stop solos from queing there. But thats not what was asked for here again. On the other hand I don't see a big issue in giving people the choice, it's not a big mental hurdle to decide what kind of SC i want and queing for the right one.

[Helwer]

We seem to be on the same side. The target should not be to penalize groups, but stop solos from queing there. But thats not what was asked for here again. On the other hand I don't see a big issue in giving people the choice, it's not a big mental hurdle to decide what kind of SC i want and queing for the right one.

Target should be not penalize any player cause the playerbase can't afford it. And there should not be mental hurdles in any options offerd by the game. Or why not take a mental hurdle in lowering group-size to help match-making or give more sc-pops. More transparacy who (archetype) is solo-qing to log something useful as you would do it in a premade or decide to not join the q. Of course there will always be no-shows, disconnects or whatever but for me and few others sc-base seems to be unsatisfying. And players just blame each other for years and decades now telling each other how to play or not to play and how to bring effort in to just farm pugs in many cases. As Gara mentioned organized tournaments, ranked etc hardly find competitive 6man teams so from a solo point of view the whole 'effort'-reasoning seems not to be the whole truth.

[Speedyluck]

problem is the q system prioritizes prems over solo quers... in order to make sure the prem get a pop it pack anything on the que even if its unbalanced and have no chance at all.

[nocturnalguest]

Yet another thread on a matter beating poor dead horse. Also yet again everything is messed&mashed up alltogether.

Crucial to pay attention into following facts:
1. "Premade" is not equal term for "Group". Premades is something that takes a challenge of 6v6 while groups are to socialize and have fun doing e.g. weekend warfront and not expected to be doing 6v6 and rankeds. What farms you, strong independant solo player, in weekend warfronts are groups (in ~90% cases those are even /5's ones and mostly not even full 6).
2. Regular SCs are totally different from 6v6 fights. Those are different game modes with their own systems and balance. You may bring aoe bw/wl into 18v18 SC map in your group and be succesful but you cant challenge other premade/group in such comp in 6v6. So all those kind of arguments like "but look at rankeds, they are dead!!!!1" are being beyond stupidity.
3. If game is catigorised as PvP-focused MMORPG then expect to socialize and group up. If you by any your own reason refuse to do that then be strong enough to meet the consequences.
4. A strong will to get rewarded is the most driving factor of any cry thread like this one. Rewards system has nothing to do with premades and groups and should be redone on bigger scale then SCs or warfront even.

[Kaeldrick]

Most scenarios are just an org 6 man stomping pugs. Amazing how many people on here seem to want to keep doing that.

Indeed, it's amazing to see how many players want to keep playing solo and get farmed by any random /5 group who has Swift Assist installed. Incredible

Maybe we should suggest to remove warbands from RvR so any solo player can run around and gather flowers safely or drive the lastest model of IKEA ram around a BO flag

[Garamore]

Or you could ask for the scen q to be changed so that 6 mans get more matches against premades and funnel the soloers against each other more. Instead its premade tears every time this is mentioned as it may end you farming easy kills against soloers in a premade whilst avoiding premade vs premade in group ranked.

[Kaeldrick]

Matchmaking is another issue, many tests have been made by dev team and almost each time it ended with SCs not poping at all.

With a low population like we currently have it's not even a good idea to touch anything about SC queues.

As mentioned many times, ranked SCs and regular SCs are very different from each other. I have to remind people who still compare both that ranked is a pure RoR feature, it didn't exist at all like 5 years ago on this server (maybe more, I don't remember correctly when they added these) and they weren't even an idea on AoR. It's a nonsense to compare both.

Now, what's the true point here? Forbid groups in SCs? Really? In a Tank-DD-Healer MMORPG? What's the objective? Population you will probably answer. OK, but it will be solo players if I understand correctly, who don't want to join groups. So what will it help with?

NB : discordant skirmish is a thing, it's for solo queuing.

[Panzer80]

Just ban healers from SC's. Way more fun to see all the low hp bars.