Magus fix

[ponko22]

It's strange that it can deal damage from a distance.
⇒SW Nerf
⇒Understood

BW/SORC buffed ranged damage.
⇒Because they have little utility and are fragile.
⇒Understood

Magus buffed 100ft ranged attack.
⇒But they have a lot of utility and high defense.
⇒Why?

[J0t4ro]

Sorry? Another one mixing stuff up? If i replied to the things you said, then who is the one?

This is exactly where i think you're conflating two different things. If we're discussing solo roaming, fine, let's discuss solo roaming. But then the fact that another class performs well, or even better, in solo doesn't mean its offensive capabilities are comparable to that of a magus, agreed?

So having a DPS healer hybrid (an example which you provided) with a strong solo sustain is a completely different kind of strength from a pure DPS class having the magus's range, burst, damage profile, and overall offensive toolkit, yes?

Then "Other classes are also good at solo" and "Magus's own damage isn't a problem" are not the same claim, and you keep treating the first as if it proves the second.

Here is my answer yo your questions:

If your argument is "every class is different", yes, you are right. However, you use that as they are not comparable and here is where I think you are shortsighted.

There are a lot of similarities in the gameplay of many of them (particularly RDPS ones). AM/SH, RP/ZEALOT even SW/SH gameplays are pretty much the same as a Magus. Dot pressure first + CC + casted skills burst + kiting. Their offensive capabilities in this context ARE comparable and therefore makes sense to bring them up.

If we lay our focus on Magus only I think its fair to ask what does this class bring to the table that the other contestants don´t and gets people mad. That was my point.

Same goes for the group content point that you mixed in. Pointing out that SH/SW/MDPS are more effective in certain group situations because of a heal debuff is a fair point about ST utility and group composition, but it doesn't follow that a magus's damage "isn't really that high." Those are two different things.

Also, cleansing isn't a free action. Every gcd or resource a healer spends cleansing, is one not spent keeping up with the rest of the assist train's damage. If healers are dedicating real attention to a magus specifically, then that's an argument a magus IS threatening, not proof it's weak. Right?

I don't think anyone is arguing that a magus should perform identically in solo and in organized group play. The question is whether its current combination of range, burst, sustained damage, and utility is appropriately tuned for what it can do in the modes where it excels.
"Other classes can solo roam too" and "Magus gets countered by healers in groups" don't answer that question, they just change the subject.

Which is really the core issue with your whole argument: you're using a magus's group ST performance to dismiss concerns about its solo damage. If solo is what's being discussed (as you stated), its performance somewhere else isn't a rebuttal.

On the patch note detail, that's a separate discussion. Classes can lose a small tactic value in one patch and still be overtuned for solo overall. One doesn't cancel out the other.

The issue is simple: How can you balance one without affecting the other? If you only complain about the damage (like many post were doing in this thread), its impossible. That was my point.

I never said Magus was useless or that it could be ignored in group content. The problem is that people complain about things in certain contexts disregarding other ones. Magus might be a powerful solo roamer but when it comes to small scale, it just simply underperforms (its obviously just an opinion, not a fact). Balance has to be done taking into account all of them, that is all I am saying.

That's not my argument, and reducing it to "every class is different" makes it easier for you to dismiss than what i actually said, and easier to call me shortsighted for it.

My point was specific: a DPS healer hybrid (which again, an example you brought up earlier) with strong solo sustain is a different kind of strength from a pure DPS with a magus's range, burst, and damage profile. That's not just "every class is different," that's a specific distinction about role and toolkit.

You're now arguing they're comparable in gameplay pattern (dot pressure, cc, casted burst, kiting), not in actual output. But similar rotation shape isn't the same as similar results. If they can't dish out the same output, how can they have the same offensive capabilities?

You yourself admitted that RPs or zealots don't have the 110ft burst, but you never made that same concession for AM/shaman or SW/SH, yet you're now lumping all of them into "comparable" together. Are you claiming they all have a magus's range and burst, or just assuming it because the rotation looks similar?

For RP and zealot, you at least admitted the burst gap exists and argued why it doesn't matter for solo roam. For the other ones you skipped that step entirely, you never said whether they have the same gap or not, you just called them comparable anyway.

Also notice you never actually answered the cleanse point. If healers are spending real resources cleansing a magus specifically, that's evidence it's a priority threat, not proof it's weak.

On "how can you balance one without affecting the other", i never said nerfs should ignore group consequences, so this isn't really a rebuttal to anything i said. It's a fair complication to keep in mind, but it doesn't make the solo problem less real, it just means the fix needs to be careful. Those are two different conversations.

I'll point out that earlier you stated the heal debuff makes SH/SW/MDPS "100% more effective" in group and that a magus's toolbox "goes down the toilet" as if it was fact. Now you're calling small scale underperformance "obviously just an opinion, not a fact." That's a pretty big shift from how confident you sounded a few posts ago.