Debate about why Order is how it is.

[Nameless]

In a way better tacticas. I would say 3 tactics that bring more for rp than zealot. Both racial (armor ones and half cc) and I would say the aoe knockback, although noone use it it is quite potent. Ofc ordinary u could slot only one of these but it is still better.
Zealot only additional def tool is woi which was nerfed recently.
But rp is facing 3 pulls and pounce so somehow things are much or less even

On the topic above orders underperforming and overperforming classes the big problem is that all heavy group based classes are up while most solo/pug friendly are down. And here at ror most ppl prefer solo/pug gamestyle hence overpopulated with engies and sws

[M0rw47h]

In a way better tacticas. I would say 3 tactics that bring more for rp than zealot. Both racial (armor ones and half cc) and I would say the aoe knockback, although noone use it it is quite potent. Ofc ordinary u could slot only one of these but it is still better.
Zealot only additional def tool is woi which was nerfed recently.
But rp is facing 3 pulls and pounce so somehow things are much or less even

On the topic above orders underperforming and overperforming classes the big problem is that all heavy group based classes are up while most solo/pug friendly are down. And here at ror most ppl prefer solo/pug gamestyle hence overpopulated with engies and sws

Zealot wouldn't use any of those tactics, even if he would have them, self morale pump is just better.

[Banjomissen]

I’ll agree that the armor tactic is nice and that it puts the RP slightly ahead even if Zealots can spec into Winds of Insanity which has its uses. The rest.. well.. not sure anyone would actually chose those over the other really nice tools in the tactics toolbox

[jvlosky]

How no one thinks Run Between Worlds is comparable to run away mystifies me. Run Away is a meme tactic. Shaman and AM heal specs are well balanced. L2P

Says every Shaman using Run Away. Not being hit is and running away with aoe slime is wayy more beneficial than being hit and taking 50% damage. Don't be so disingenuous. I would love to see a metric of all most used shaman tactics. Guarantee 'Run away' would be the most used.

[Kwatchi]

Order doesnt need Sw's at warband, especially ranged.
Order doesnt need Ib's in a wb.
Order doesnt need Engi's in a wb.
Order strongly doubt WH's in a wb.
Order need a skill check for Am healers in wb.No room for dps am's ofc.

Not entirely true. We’ve had a near perfect record in cities of late and still regularly run 1 WH with dragon gun, and have recently brought a ranged SW (primarily for stage 3). We also run 1-2 IBs and AM utility healers. Most classes have a role, even if only one is needed and it is spec specific.

However, our WB’s backbone is the 4 KoBS + 4 WP + BW/Sl/WL heavy meta. Nothing else has proven viable unfortunately and we have to leverage what little synergies are available to us in order to compete. We ‘banned’ Engies a while back for that reason.

[lyncher12]

In a way better tacticas. I would say 3 tactics that bring more for rp than zealot. Both racial (armor ones and half cc) and I would say the aoe knockback, although noone use it it is quite potent. Ofc ordinary u could slot only one of these but it is still better.
Zealot only additional def tool is woi which was nerfed recently.
But rp is facing 3 pulls and pounce so somehow things are much or less even

On the topic above orders underperforming and overperforming classes the big problem is that all heavy group based classes are up while most solo/pug friendly are down. And here at ror most ppl prefer solo/pug gamestyle hence overpopulated with engies and sws

Zealot wouldn't use any of those tactics, even if he would have them, self morale pump is just better.

are you the zealot that uses morale pump and tzeentchs scream? zealot m4's arent that much better than just using talon, i would love to have the dwarf armor tactic

[M0rw47h]

are you the zealot that uses morale pump and tzeentchs scream? zealot m4's arent that much better than just using talon, i would love to have the dwarf armor tactic

Usualy just fast Focused Mind to counter pressure, or Windblock to collect some tears during co-ordinated morale bombs. Talon is like for 6v6 and roaming.

[Nameless]

The knockdown tactic imo is quite better. 40% aoe uncleansable slow on 20 sec cd is quite potent. Most survival tools on rp and zealot on that matter are on 3 min cd so such tool is quite good.

[play]

Just a small update on the data while the server is down. I rearranged the roles and color coded them, and also matched mirrors where possible. Of course roles are complicated with some classes. There is some additional data but honestly the results look pretty stable for RvR. I am collecting city data but it's too early to be statistically interesting. Oh and raw numbers are in as well if someone wants to represent them in a different way.

https://imgur.com/a/0FnsSPk

In case someone's interested on a high-end population estimation -I have been doing something similar to this but for a longer period of time and filtering player's renown rank as well (as a RR80 character can't compare to a RR40 one, for instance). This is the data I collected which I'm confident could be close to the actual active player base, given that it's now changing very little these days:

Code: Select all

            cl             | 40+ | 70+ | 80+
---------------------------+-----+-----+-----
 Warrior Priest            | 891 | 282 | 131
 Disciple of Khaine        | 783 | 282 | 137
 Shaman                    | 781 | 236 | 102
 Bright Wizard             | 677 | 216 | 106
 Engineer                  | 662 | 190 |  84
 Zealot                    | 646 | 206 |  89
 Knight of the Blazing Sun | 640 | 242 | 116
 Chosen                    | 633 | 256 | 110
 Squig Herder              | 590 | 183 |  83
 Sorcerer                  | 582 | 194 |  93
 Rune Priest               | 566 | 172 |  79
 Archmage                  | 565 | 179 |  85
 Black Orc                 | 563 | 188 |  85
 Choppa                    | 553 | 181 |  91
 White Lion                | 550 | 165 |  72
 Magus                     | 532 | 133 |  62
 Marauder                  | 485 | 147 |  68
 Witch Elf                 | 469 | 174 |  79
 Slayer                    | 456 | 168 |  72
 Ironbreaker               | 450 | 151 |  54
 Black Guard               | 410 | 141 |  55
 Witch Hunter              | 396 | 108 |  57
 Shadow Warrior            | 396 | 109 |  53
 Swordmaster               | 378 | 106 |  51

[videogamer]

Just a small update on the data while the server is down. I rearranged the roles and color coded them, and also matched mirrors where possible. Of course roles are complicated with some classes. There is some additional data but honestly the results look pretty stable for RvR. I am collecting city data but it's too early to be statistically interesting. Oh and raw numbers are in as well if someone wants to represent them in a different way.

https://imgur.com/a/0FnsSPk

In case someone's interested on a high-end population estimation -I have been doing something similar to this but for a longer period of time and filtering player's renown rank as well (as a RR80 character can't compare to a RR40 one, for instance). This is the data I collected which I'm confident could be close to the actual active player base, given that it's now changing very little these days:

Code: Select all

            cl             | 40+ | 70+ | 80+
---------------------------+-----+-----+-----
 Warrior Priest            | 891 | 282 | 131
 Disciple of Khaine        | 783 | 282 | 137
 Shaman                    | 781 | 236 | 102
 Bright Wizard             | 677 | 216 | 106
 Engineer                  | 662 | 190 |  84
 Zealot                    | 646 | 206 |  89
 Knight of the Blazing Sun | 640 | 242 | 116
 Chosen                    | 633 | 256 | 110
 Squig Herder              | 590 | 183 |  83
 Sorcerer                  | 582 | 194 |  93
 Rune Priest               | 566 | 172 |  79
 Archmage                  | 565 | 179 |  85
 Black Orc                 | 563 | 188 |  85
 Choppa                    | 553 | 181 |  91
 White Lion                | 550 | 165 |  72
 Magus                     | 532 | 133 |  62
 Marauder                  | 485 | 147 |  68
 Witch Elf                 | 469 | 174 |  79
 Slayer                    | 456 | 168 |  72
 Ironbreaker               | 450 | 151 |  54
 Black Guard               | 410 | 141 |  55
 Witch Hunter              | 396 | 108 |  57
 Shadow Warrior            | 396 | 109 |  53
 Swordmaster               | 378 | 106 |  51

Here you go: