Scenario Premade System

[Jaycub]

The real issue is the mentality of premades. I can almost guarantee it that if you introduce a premade system then premades will simple not queue up when Enigma/Gankbus just rolls them all day since they are just more co-ordinated, it already happens, it even happens in the open lakes, peoples e-peen levels are so high that they will just alt f4 out of the game to avoid death, or just use some of those nice sneakers and bunnyhop away and bug abuse it like mad ( no idea why people don't like to die in a video game ). Same thing will happen in scenarios, one team will just destroy the rest and they won't queue up.

I mean it sucks going up against premades all day when you queue up solo, and I imagine its no fun for the opposite side. It's just hard to find a good solution that will have a good impact, role checks might be good to try out.

( I'm not saying ALL premades are like this, its just been an observation over time )

So we should stifle a chance to create a real competitive atmosphere to cater to these people?

Good players in any game are those who can acknowledge who is better than themselves, and know where they are at and strive to be where those better players are or beyond in terms of skill/knowledge etc... The type of people that blame their own actions for a loss and not on someone else actions even if they played amazingly that match.

If you give us a 6v6 SC que I wouldn't mind getting my ass whopped by more coordinated guilds because it is going to be the only chance I will have to know where I and my guild/group stand. Every loss can become a real learning experience and reflection.

Those people that can't handle losing because they think they are hot **** can neck their selves honestly fam :^) Getting really sick of the boring ass stomps or getting stomped because you have a PUG group chained to yourself and same for the other team if they are a premade.


On another note, I really hope if we do get 6v6 scenarios that it won't be exclusively deathmatch scs. Those are great and all but some of us really like the tactics you could employ in an objective based scenario... and most of all those type of matches would have a drastically different meta then deathmatch because each map would have it set of rolls played by everyone... for instance in say reik 6v6 you could run a strat where you have a good solo class sitting on the machine shop, a roamer in tunnels, a person putting pressure on warehouse, and a 3 man that plays at mid and close. There would be some many fun things you could come up with and do. Deathmatch is just gonna be the 2-2-2 melee train meta or whatever is best on this server if it's going to be different from live.

[Sizer]

On another note, I really hope if we do get 6v6 scenarios that it won't be exclusively deathmatch scs. Those are great and all but some of us really like the tactics you could employ in an objective based scenario... and most of all those type of matches would have a drastically different meta then deathmatch because each map would have it set of rolls played by everyone... for instance in say reik 6v6 you could run a strat where you have a good solo class sitting on the machine shop, a roamer in tunnels, a person putting pressure on warehouse, and a 3 man that plays at mid and close. There would be some many fun things you could come up with and do. Deathmatch is just gonna be the 2-2-2 melee train meta or whatever is best on this server if it's going to be different from live.

Just going to comment on the end here. Ive played one of those other mmos (might as well say, it was gw2), where they wanted to move away from the "boring" deathmatch scenarios and put in ones like you describe. And, well, its interesting, and it takes different tactics than deathmatch, and its also insanely boring and restrictive. People find the best 1v1 class (also sidenote - this would make 1v1 balance threads even more common), which tend to be super tanky, and only run 2 of those in groups specifically to sidecap, while the rest of the group is the 4 person equivalent of that 2-2-2 meta group (lets face it, itd be 2x wp 1 knight 1 slayer). Ive even seen tournaments won by groups with 4 people on the same class (max group size is 5 fyi) just because the balance at the time made that class so good at roaming. And I guess the equivalent of that in this game would be a 4 knight/2 wp group. No thanks.

Of course their flaw is that 100% of their scenarios are like that. If we had a system where you didnt know what scen it is til you loaded in, and they were all substantially different, all of that would be avoided, and this could be very interesting. Itd be even better if the 2-2-2 meta was fixed so all group combinations could compete in both types of matches. EIther way this would be an interesting thing to discuss on its own for the future.

[Bretin]

On another note, I really hope if we do get 6v6 scenarios that it won't be exclusively deathmatch scs. Those are great and all but some of us really like the tactics you could employ in an objective based scenario... and most of all those type of matches would have a drastically different meta then deathmatch because each map would have it set of rolls played by everyone... for instance in say reik 6v6 you could run a strat where you have a good solo class sitting on the machine shop, a roamer in tunnels, a person putting pressure on warehouse, and a 3 man that plays at mid and close. There would be some many fun things you could come up with and do. Deathmatch is just gonna be the 2-2-2 melee train meta or whatever is best on this server if it's going to be different from live.

That's all well and good but your theory requires that both groups are interessted in winning by objectives. Our guild for example doesn't give a flying f*ck and we'd just steamroll from point to point until the enemy starts to gather up and fight. If you ask me, winning is not determined by 500:100 when the kills are 0:20 and i doubt such a outcome would satisfy the "winner". Either there is a insane reward included which makes it worth to do PvE in a PvP enviroment - at least until everyone of your group has the reward and you can go back to fighting - or we just stick to the deathmatch which is the reason why a lot of ppl play WAR :p

[lator]

And I guess the equivalent of that in this game would be a 4 knight/2 wp group. No thanks.

You never ran this on live? With RR90+ gear you could stomp full warbands with this setup. Allthough it took a while to kill, you were basically immortal and eventually always won in the end.

[Jaycub]

That's all well and good but your theory requires that both groups are interessted in winning by objectives. Our guild for example doesn't give a flying f*ck and we'd just steamroll from point to point until the enemy starts to gather up and fight. If you ask me, winning is not determined by 500:100 when the kills are 0:20 and i doubt such a outcome would satisfy the "winner". Either there is a insane reward included which makes it worth to do PvE in a PvP enviroment - at least until everyone of your group has the reward and you can go back to fighting - or we just stick to the deathmatch which is the reason why a lot of ppl play WAR :p

Just need an MMR/Ladder system or something similar and losing in any fashion will hurt.

I don't get why people think it would be "PvE", unless you zerg from point to point with your 6 man you won't lose any point without a fight or without some kind of calculation being made by your team as maps are small and with people playing specific rolls you should be able to know where pretty much everyone on the enemy team is most of the time and have some kind of answer by any play made by them. Of course I am sure teams with no voice comms would rather just que deathmatch and they should be able too, I just think it would be fun to be able to do objective based SC's sometimes especially if you want to run outside the 6v6 meta.

@the GW2 comment, ya structured PvP in that game was super unbalanced but there was some good moments. The problem is the devs wanted to work on those gay lesbian ERP living story bullcrap instead of fixing structured PvP or really anything else about the game for years. Bunker builds on certain classes where just retarded OP.

[Ritualis]

So, instead of upping your game, the game should be brought down to your level?

'upping your game' Interesting, so you consider people who form premades to be of higher skill levels than everyone else?

Sometimes there have been pugs in scenarios and we have done extremely well because people are just playing together as they should focusing the correct targets down following tanks who guard them helping your heals from dying etc but its a rare occurrence for sure.

I think the main issue with premade versus pug is the simple fact that there's no doubt most premades use communication software so the pugs get turned to mush so quick its stupid I've been in many scenarios lately where its premade order group just wrecking destro and keeping us locked in base.

Not fun at all for the casual's of the server and I guess there are more casual's here than there are premades.

I've had to start forming a guild just so I can find people to play with, extra work I don't need when 'gaming' very annoying.

[Genisaurus]

On another note, I really hope if we do get 6v6 scenarios that it won't be exclusively deathmatch scs. Those are great and all but some of us really like the tactics you could employ in an objective based scenario... and most of all those type of matches would have a drastically different meta then deathmatch because each map would have it set of rolls played by everyone... for instance in say reik 6v6 you could run a strat where you have a good solo class sitting on the machine shop, a roamer in tunnels, a person putting pressure on warehouse, and a 3 man that plays at mid and close. There would be some many fun things you could come up with and do. Deathmatch is just gonna be the 2-2-2 melee train meta or whatever is best on this server if it's going to be different from live.

You're not wrong, but don't be surprised (and/or disappointed) if the first such scenarios we test with are deathmatch scenarios. Frankly, those have an immediate appeal with most players, and are easier to implement. For an objective-based scenario to work as a 6v6, there are a lot of things that need to be taken into consideration that would be mitigated in a 12v12 by being able to split forces effectively. We've been playing with some ideas internally.

We'll probably do a preview/hype parade for any totally new scenarios before they get implemented, but 6v6 deathmatch scenarios are nothing new.

[Jaycub]

I'd be super happy for any kind of 6v6 map, having a pug group chained to your premade is no fun. And those wins against other guilds where they have a pug group with no healer and bunch of lowbies doesn't feel that great either. At least with 6v6 the blame for losing/winning rests totally on the shoulders of your group or the others.

[Soulcheg]

PuG (pick-up group) sometimes better that a some premades.

[backrow]

for 6v6 there's hardly a better fit than the death match.