What would it take: Queue for 6v6

[Foltestik]

there is generaly problem with scenarios. Becouse from rvr you can get gear and renown faster then in scenarios and with less effort you can just jump in tide of zerg and easy. No need to make party and try hard to learn what button to press.
on live every guild run same sort of 6 man in scenarios (same better same realy ****), here most of players play solo and join pug sc and pug wb becouse is easis way to get stuff

[lefze]

It has already been proven that this simply isn't true. Stop using a completely false excuse and go kill some people. Might sound ridiculous if you aren't able to look at it objectively, but Wrist Slash effectively increases the required initiative of any given class by 45 initiative when compared to pre-october/november patches. That's about two talisman slots or a few renown points and one talisman slot, assuming you don't run a Black Ork, which pretty much makes the debuff drown completely into trashtier. We are talking a 3%-9% debuff total depending on tank setup on non-sorc/we/shammy/whatever other classes automatically get 300 ini unbuffed. These classes put the debuff even lower.

So basically your only excuse for not queueing is invalid, go queue. And also getting really tired of repeating this stuff, but people have such a skewed perception of this non-issue so I just feel forced to do it.

Someone got triggered their main character broken skill got mentioned, i see.



No issue there at all. None.

I'd really like to see what a real issue is, if you think that is okay and it's just "skewed perception"

6v6 are supposed to be competitive. That abomination removes any form of "competitive"

Do you even realize you are posting a pre-inipatch screenshot of a guy scewing the result by making the debuff bigger by having zeally buff in first, and no zeally buff in second screen, and having lower unbuffed initiative than he should have even when NOT playing against ASW, even for post-patch? Not only that, but 2/3 destro tanks boost any personal effort of the player to counter it extremely well. Not to mention that screenshot is taken either with a zeally buff that's boosted by mastery points making his base ini even lower than I first thought, or with an SM debuffing aswell, but without a BO buff to compensate.

Edit: To elaborate further, right now, with his 225ish unbuffed initiative and zealot buff on top with a 120 SM debuff and a 80 SW debuff, it's a total of 21% crit chance debuff. Add ONE talisman and it becomes a total 15.973% debuff. Add BO statsteal and wow, we have a whooping 8.6% crit debuff total, from which wrist slash is less than 5%. What's more is that these numbers ALL include a 120 initiative SM statsteal, as you can see the combo is only effective against people that actively refuse to gear right, reach low enough unbuffed ini and even SM alone will put you at insane numbers.

[MedV]

Yea there was a past thread about putting sc/6 man groups in the group find tab with Wbs and PQs but i think it was put down. I seem to be able to find 2-3 people to join after an hour or 2 of constant /5 spam. But like above posters have said... people get tired of waiting and rather just ride the zerg.

The math above was kinda right but his 5% of the player base is wrong. Hes not accounting for having to get 2 healers and 2 tanks. You basically need 15% of the Destro healers/tanks to join your 6man.

100 Destro on NA prime.... 50 which are above 40.... Leaves like 10 healers to choose from....

Spamming in /5 was the end of trying for me... But seriously I would prob do anything if and I would be willing to try everyday... for some Gnarly Dyes.....

[YezCrusader]

Everyone hates a Grace WP so that's me out of the picture. PuG SCs it is then.

Respect also goes a long way. So many are impatient, not willing to teach or straight up rude if you're not the best all the time. How are you meant to learn, or get enough resources for the gear you need, or get enough experience to know how to play your class if others rage or lol when you try to? By playing PuG you say? Well how are we meant to learn all of those things against more serious players when PuG SCs aren't the same calibre and rarely anyone is organised?

Thelen's reply also hits home.

[peterthepan3]

Everyone hates a Grace WP so that's me out of the picture. PuG SCs it is then.

Respect also goes a long way. So many are impatient, not willing to teach or straight up rude if you're not the best all the time. How are you meant to learn, or get enough resources for the gear you need, or get enough experience to know how to play your class if others rage or lol when you try to? By playing PuG you say? Well how are we meant to learn all of those things against more serious players when PuG SCs aren't the same calibre and rarely anyone is organised?

Thelen's reply also hits home.

Therein lies an issue I have found in RoR: people are deadset on playing a class the way they want to - even if it is not the best way to play the class within a group environment - and so never get invited to groups, because they aren't willing to either spec a bit differently to better complement their group/don't want to have their individual way of doing things challenged.

People are entitled to play how they want. I respect you for playing Grace WP, and I love playing melee heal WP myself. However, the notion of even finetuning one's spec/class ever so slightly is often met with disgust/comments a la 'well why can't I play how I want? why must I adhere to the meta in order to get a spot?'. (this isn't you btw, just a general feeling I get in regards to reasons people don't want to group).

[Lileldys]

It looks like a majority of the responses is there isn't enough rewards, and there isn't enough class variety that is competitive.

Firstly, unified currency between RvR and SC.. Say what you will about it, but it works in other games. The argument for "it makes the next tier irrelevant" is nullified by creating a new currency. Rebalance the cost between Conq+Dominator and you're set.
The Top Tier PvP needs to grant the best results for gear progression. It should be quicker than SCs+RvR for gear progression seeing that there can be lengthy queue times. Say 50 medals for a win? A loss should be well rewarded as well, 25?
A PUG stomp will grant just 7-9 medals, where as you could get 25 for trying to 6v6, even if you lose, you'll still get quicker progression. Obviously needs to be monitored to stop abuse between 2 groups.

Onto class disparity, I pray for the time when devs start tweaking the numbers on skills instead of redesigning the skills. Changing the numbers can easily be done patch by patch(Aza confirmed in a Q&A), giving 5% dmg here and there or taking away damage overtime will bring classes to a better spot.

[Rodek]

On live why did we have premades? I think that's probably one of the most important answers to address the original question.

1. Guilds meant more on live. Really what reason is there to be in a guild on RoR? You ask most people and it's for the crafting mats. There really isn't any reason outside of that to be in a guild.
2. Rewards - Conq is the best yet not obtainable through SC, also there is no gear you can reasonably get in a SC. Dominator is random drop and not a power increase over Conq.
2a. SCs having no bearing on any RvR makes them pointless in the grand scheme. It's been chosen to treat them as a "mini-game" so they have been devalued to the point of worthlessness. Make them vital to the RvR effort and you'll see an immediate change.
3. X-realm - Premades only really become a thing when rivalries form. It's hard to build any kinda of rivalry when you just change jerseys and play for the other team. No one is forced to be better or play better.

[ravenlocke]

Everyone hates a Grace WP so that's me out of the picture. PuG SCs it is then.

Respect also goes a long way. So many are impatient, not willing to teach or straight up rude if you're not the best all the time. How are you meant to learn, or get enough resources for the gear you need, or get enough experience to know how to play your class if others rage or lol when you try to? By playing PuG you say? Well how are we meant to learn all of those things against more serious players when PuG SCs aren't the same calibre and rarely anyone is organised?

Thelen's reply also hits home.

Therein lies an issue I have found in RoR: people are deadset on playing a class the way they want to - even if it is not the best way to play the class within a group environment - and so never get invited to groups, because they aren't willing to either spec a bit differently to better complement their group/don't want to have their individual way of doing things challenged.

People are entitled to play how they want. I respect you for playing Grace WP, and I love playing melee heal WP myself. However, the notion of even finetuning one's spec/class ever so slightly is often met with disgust/comments a la 'well why can't I play how I want? why must I adhere to the meta in order to get a spot?'. (this isn't you btw, just a general feeling I get in regards to reasons people don't want to group).

Hi Peter:

Based on your response it seems that the balance moderator's official standpoint on why there is limited 6v6 in this game is because people are playing the game/classes the way they want to?

To any new players or players considering joining the game - in my experience all specs are currently viable and very fun in the game. I recently spectated as a grace WP and 2h IB took on 7-9 destro and won. It is more about learning the people you play with and how to complement/assist each other.

I think if we increase the server population we will start to see more and more 6 man groups forming that are open to more people and more variety in spec and class composition.

- Kright 66 DOK

[Ramasee]

The first thing you want to do is to create more general community interest and investment into the 6v6 scene. This is going to be hard to do using the 6v6 scenario. However, we already have something that is organized somewhat regularly that can accomplish this. The Fusion 6v6 event.

We were talking about this in Zerg's discord a couple weeks ago (not just our better 6v6 members, but many from our guild). Increase the production quality of the Fusion 6v6 event by adding shoutcasters that have the UI set up to be able to see buffs/debuffs and effects. Record the comms of people playing in 6v6, edit them, and place excerpts into the final product video. (Recorded version, not live of course). Get a GM to be in spectator mode and take thematic shots of the fights at they are happening. Roll all that into a video of the event. Here is an example of what the community did in another game that runs community tournaments: Mech Warrior Online.

(I was a member of MarineMechs up until we disbanded last year)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOLIyzN0sKk&t

Running multiple divisions in the Fusion event was a great start into transforming the 6v6 scene into something that is a little more inclusive. This is where the leaderboard idea would be most applicable.That will get more people possibly interested in trying out the event. Then we need to translate those players over to wanting to do the 6v6 scenario.

As it has been said, a carrot would need to be added to doing the 6v6 scenario. However, it should not be any kind of gear with stats at all. You do not want to reward people with power in an event they win. Adding more conq emblems or possibly seals of paragon/exemplar can be part of it, but not too much more than regular scenarios. Losers in 6v6 scenario should get more than losers in regular scenarios. You can also add a new type of currency. This new currency can be used to purchase gear with no stats but exclusive appearances, liniments, and the rarest types of dyes (such as gunbad ones, chaos black, etc).

The scenario needs to rotate every now and then, just like the PuG sc. Scenarios in general need touches here and there for balance and objective use/control.

The 6v6 community needs to get out of the farm mentality. If you win the team fight, do the objective and finish the scenario. Farming the enemy at their spawn only decreases their willingness to queue. As long as this continues to happen, the 6v6 scenario population will never grow. The 6v6 community in general needs to be more welcoming and helpful to new players entering the scene instead of reclusive and secretive. More population playing is in our best interest.

The 6v6 scenario should not adhere to faction ruleset. What I mean by this, is that it should be possible to face against an order premade as an order premade and vice versa with destro. This will help lessen the queue times and increase the diversity of teams fought. It would be fantastic if there was an area in the world that allowed this to happen (so that the fusion event can use it) similar to the booty bay arena in vanilla WoW.

[Martok]

What change would be required to be made, in your opinion, to have you as a player (who doesn't normally queue for 6v6 scenarios) form a group, establish voice communications and queue for the 6v6 only scenario.

Enough people willing to form a group. However most nights that alone is the insurmountable obstacle.