Five reasons why empty BOs giving rewards is better for ORvR

[Harddrive]

My Solution is pretty simple.

1. Only open One lake at a time- lock the others while this is open. RvR is fun when there are actually people there to play, it is not fun when it is empty. This would funnel all people into the same lake and disable rotating keep locks with empty lakes.

2. For each BO you take and hold when the keep flips you receive an RR/XP buff. So if you own all 4 BO's you would receive a 100% buff. The off side is the opposing faction would receive 10% of the keep rr/xp value for each BO that they flip. THis gives an incentive to both sides to fight and hold BO's.

3. Reduce oil damage, nerf doors, and buff siege equipment so sieges are fun and not just /afk door pounding.

[Malgaroth]

He said a lot of stuff.

I don't agree with a few of the points, like the door regen or the limits on door health because a keep is a keep and the door is a lynchpin of a defense, defenders should naturally have defenses, it's a gameplay reward for having taken the keep in the first place.

But beyond that, I think the direction he's going in is generally correct. At the moment Keeps are the objective, the reward, and the issue. Grim is completely correct so far as I see it, players will always take the path of least resistance to a goal, it's natural. So if killing other players IS the path of least resistance to the goal then that's, at the very least, an excellent starting point. Killing a group of 6 people should be more directly rewarding, on both sides, than taking a BO. A fight between warbands, whether it be prolonged or a zerg v zerg wipefest, should be more directly rewarding on both sides than the cap of a keep. I should say by a large margin, too.

Keep caps should provide almost no tangible reward beyond Grim's idea of increasing renown, which further funnels into the idea of overall renown serving as the capture mechanic. In the system he described, keeps are important overall, they serve a personal purpose while also benefiting the realm, they're worth defending, and they're worth taking and they can still serve as major combat hotspots. But they're not something that everyone on earth is going to zerg to when they could be out trying to kill other players, because grinding keeps isn't going to get you that gear you want, and losing a keep loses you renown gain, which can funnel very easily into the renown-fueled-leaderboard idea and serve as an incentive for max R/RR players looking to boost their renown numbers a bit, as well as players that just want to kill the attacking warband for the rewards. Easy rewards as well, as they're defending and are naturally in a better place to kill the defenders.

Leapfrogging off of that, people suggested earlier that a leaderboard would keep players interested in combat long after rewards, and that's true. Especially in such a relatively small community, anyone can aspire to be top 100. And if you can get top 100, why not top 10? And hey, on a lucky day, maybe I can get #1. And tangible rewards for making it big are even better, like the old statues, or exclusive, exhaustible/timed mounts/aesthetic gear for getting ranked high up there on the board.

[navis]

It seems clear to me that BO's need fix - they need the old Buffs added around them. Either simple or complex, just need to increase the RR from players.
I can't wait to see what's happening with BO's, some sort of ranked system?

[normanis]

t1 is taking batlefield objects and just zerging rest tiers is taking keeps. oofc i whant xp for taking batliefield object in t1 and rr with influence . and maby t2 so ppl can catch up with rr in t4.

[Dresden]

1., 2., 3., 4. and 5. are all valid points.

However i would point out:

A. No powur, No moneh.

B. THIS WAY! GO! CHAAARGE!

[roadkillrobin]

I'd like to to see people get rewarded for each BO (And Keeps) you have been participating in taking and defending when a zone lock. Even if you're on the loosing side you should be rewarded for completed Defences.
I belive this was how it worked on live for a long time. It made zone locks and zone lock prevention very rewarding and ended up in people working for it much harder.

[georgehabadasher]

I think a big part of the reason we see crossrealming and zerging to the degree we do is the way rewards are parceled out. Almost all the best gear (annihilator/genesis) in the game comes from taking keeps. Because of this we see huge imbalances in population as crossrealmers switch over to the winning side to get some, any reward. Furthermore, the fact that undefended keeps don't give rewards means defending keeps is actually disincentivized. The goal of making people earn their loot is a noble one, but in this case I think the implementation has had some unfortunate side effects. Defenders think "Why defend a keep, when I'm just giving away 10+ bags to my enemy? Better to camp the path to the keep and just kill stragglers."

If Annihilator/Genesis equipment could be acquired from killing players somehow (drops, a new currency, whatever) and at higher rates when people had AAO I think we'd see a lot more competition in the lakes. Alternatively, create another item set that can only be acquired by taking BOs/killing players when you have AAO. We need to incentivize playing on the underdog side.

On another note, I agree with the idea that BOs shouldn't lock, or at least not for very long. Locking them for so long eliminates a portion of the map from play, effectively funneling all players the same location.

[Collateral]

For me, keep taking and defending is not about the bags that I 'might' get. I played this game for over half a year now, pretty much always on my bo, and I can't count how many keeps I took and defended. I only once got a gold bag, and maybe half a dozen green bags all together. So when we take a keep, I'm not there for a reward, because I pretty much know I won't get anything at this point. I play for fun and for rr. And if I get a bag, it's just a little bonus.

I don't know how all this contribution works, but it seems to me something should be changed. If somehow the devs could create a system that counts how many keeps the player has taken and defended, and based on how many bags he got, or better, didn't get, it gives him a better chance of winning something. Just like the pq's work, if I'm not mistaken.

Yesterday, our friend logged on while we were taking a keep. He joined the wb and was attacking the keep for like 3 minutes, and he won a purple bag. So he literaly just joined the game, and already won a purple bag. But I'm going a bit off topic here so I'll stop.

Taking BOs and participating in rvr in general should all be implemented in the contribution I think. The ultimate goal here is zone lock right? So how about a system that rolls for bags when the whole ZONE is locked? It counts players contribution in keep and BO taking, or keep and BO defending. I don't know what this system should count as contribution, that's a bit hard to decide as there are plenty of things one might consider as contribution. And the devs certainly know more about this then me, so they know if it can be done somehow or not.

What I think the easiest thing to do for now, is implementing the pq system into rvr. Locking a zone or defending or taking a keep, gives you (not everyone of course) bags that contain fragments for medalions. And as far as BOs go, maybe a system that counts who was in the area and did dmg or healed allies, which is then counted towards the zone lock, if not keep taking as well.

[Lifebane]

Empty the BOs so that smallmans and solos can prep zones for the WBs, and to increase action outside of zergs. Zerging isn't everyones play style, some people enjoy using their character to its full potential instead of just relying on numbers and more AoE for the win. The old system was flawed but you had action everywhere and more options to fit your play style.