AM/Shaman and General Balance.

[Sulorie]

Wasnt forgetting, but it also has an ailment requirement which isnt a big deal. SW/SH is arguably better, but 10 seconds is really as short as you need one to be.

Even if you want to say the SH/SW HD is better, Scatter the Winds is still better than the vast majority of HD that dps have. Especially when you compare it to that Sorc HD.

You are right though I was talking about the AM heal debuff. Dont really have an issue with the Shaman HD.

It's not game breaking in any way, but it doesnt really make sense why they need such a good HD.

My argument is what dps class wouldnt trade their HD for the AM HD? SH/SW maybe? Maybe Marauder because of tactics?

Their are plenty DD with permanent healdebuff uptime.

[Aerogath]

Well, i gave up on discussing about the opness of AM/Shammy.
It will always be ignored. The Problem exists for so long and every discussion got ignored or flamed by AM mains, finally a time ago shammy got the same change as AM and became op too and oh wonder.... Order cried about shammy op in the forum and i was thinking .... " well now they can`t ignore it anymore" ... this was few month ago

So i tell you what will happen .... NOTHING

[Sulorie]

Actually only the same few players cry on forums. ^_^

[witchdoctor]

Actually only the same few players cry on forums. ^_^

SIGN^^^

I always wonder WHY people think about AM/Shaman being OP, and how they get to that point.
I mean, did you attack an AM with choppa and died? i've got killed by good WE's all day long.
Did i open a ****** thread about WE/WH Balance? hell no!

It's a party and (sadly)warband oriented game... If you see an AM / Shaman getting all kills in a 6v6, send that screen and we can talk about balance, otherwise just take it when you get killed 1v1

and just about the 900-1000 Int (medium gear), tesq talked about... MY dps AM is curently 40/60+ 3pc BL, 3/4 pc DOM and 2pc merc, sadly no Genesis yet, just reached lvl 40... im sloted half Int half armor. and i have 700 Int unbuffed ofc no Int specced with renown. with genesis you get +85 int... when i slot 3 more Int talis i get max +72 and a pot, max +100 =950 Int MAX and then you are a freaking squishi.. you wont survive any of the 3 pulls destro have, neither you have a chance to survive SH pounce...
Same on shaman... when he goes full off even Run tactic won't help him that much...

Anyway, if you feel like AM/Shaman is OP, play it and enjoy it's OP'nes, or discuss with real arguments and stuff...
but spot whining about things you dont understand

[Tesq]

Actually only the same few players cry on forums. ^_^

SIGN^^^

I always wonder WHY people think about AM/Shaman being OP, and how they get to that point.
I mean, did you attack an AM with choppa and died? i've got killed by good WE's all day long.
Did i open a ****** thread about WE/WH Balance? hell no!

It's a party and (sadly)warband oriented game... If you see an AM / Shaman getting all kills in a 6v6, send that screen and we can talk about balance, otherwise just take it when you get killed 1v1

and just about the 900-1000 Int (medium gear), tesq talked about... MY dps AM is curently 40/60+ 3pc BL, 3/4 pc DOM and 2pc merc, sadly no Genesis yet, just reached lvl 40... im sloted half Int half armor. and i have 700 Int unbuffed ofc no Int specced with renown. with genesis you get +85 int... when i slot 3 more Int talis i get max +72 and a pot, max +100 =950 Int MAX and then you are a freaking squishi.. you wont survive any of the 3 pulls destro have, neither you have a chance to survive SH pounce...
Same on shaman... when he goes full off even Run tactic won't help him that much...

Anyway, if you feel like AM/Shaman is OP, play it and enjoy it's OP'nes, or discuss with real arguments and stuff...
but spot whining about things you dont understand

If ppl lament low int and dint get it from renown is their prob, my change magus is def spec and have 999....if you are a rdps you expect to spec as rdps since a heavy def am make no sense since it can alredy heal himself, a dps am must spec deep int and bring it up in renown because you alredy have instead int tactic a 10% crit tactic, aka , if you are a dps spec is not your job to survive, tanks and healer gona make you survive, glass cannon is a thing but dont even reach standard int level is another.

again optimal level is 900-1000 int in t4 as first thing the rest came later cuz you are a dps in that spec.
and optimal would also mean have a pocket SM for debuff.

[Aerogath]

DPS am/shammy are dealing the dot dmg that Magus dealt on live before they nerfed it so the ground so btw.
He simply couldn't Heal, Shield,aoe knockback and needed Daemon Stacks to deal his dmg. Even the really strong debuff on am/shammy dots are a joke to the simple resistance debuffs magus has. Also we could simply say AM /Shammy is Change Magus2.0

[peterthepan3]

DPS am/shammy are dealing the dot dmg that Magus dealt on live before they nerfed it so the ground so btw.

What? ST DoTs are the same to Magus Baleful/Withered with 8 stacks. AoE dots are going to be weaker than AM/Shaman ST DoTs because, well....they're AoE.

[live4treasure]

Also Magus still has some of the highest single target burst damage in the game, to be fair. That's not to say anything about how viable it is in a 6v6 environment, that's a different and more complicated story, in which the damage output is clearly not the issue.

P.S.: The dots themselves are really not a big part of what makes up AM's killing potential. Scorching Touch tactic + Dissipating Energies on a nearby target is what deals the damage. One has an 11 second cooldown, the other a 20 second cooldown, and together they deal about 70% of the total damage an AM does during its 5 second burst phase, after which point follows a 15 second downtime where AM spends most of its time refreshing dots and not much else.

[Nidwin]

DPS am/shammy are dealing the dot dmg that Magus dealt on live before they nerfed it so the ground so btw.

What? ST DoTs are the same to Magus Baleful/Withered with 8 stacks. AoE dots are going to be weaker than AM/Shaman ST DoTs because, well....they're AoE.

I had Pand ticking over and over again for 93 on a 2-handed KoTBS. And I saw it tick for 93 and 93 and 93 and 93 ... and 93 (EP slotted of course) before it finaly ended and I clicked on the respawn button. My word P2P, it was one of the better pand ticks all around on a 2-handed order tank.
But as you wrote, AoE dots are going to be clearly weaker.

[Nidwin]

Also Magus still has some of the highest single target burst damage in the game, to be fair.

It's extremely useful when we, destro, are on the keep Lord, as long as the Havoc Magus superdelamortkitu knows that when he gets the Lord's aggro he does NOT, I repeat he does NOT panic and starts running around like a brainless Magus.

That's not to say anything about how viable it is in a 6v6 environment, that's a different and more complicated story, in which the damage output is clearly not the issue.

P2P could finaly agree in another thread that Havoc is clearly not suited for WB gameplay. Now if you're telling us that it's not that viable in a 6vs6 environment. So ?
What's Havoc specced Magus actually good for, except solo PVE pulling/farming single NPC's one after the others faster than anyone else?