no fort limit + xrealming + 24 aoe cap = disaster

[Direbloodykiller]

xrealming is something that has been brought up many times before and is something that we are actively trying to stop from happening. There are numerous threads about this so not going to go into details on it, search if your interested.

AOE cap at 24 is staying, we might do some tweaks here and there but the change has overall been perceived as good and it gives a reason to not stack blobs as it was before. Stacking blobs to protect members from AOE is a cancerous thing as all it does it further promoote blobbing with no way to combat it.

Forts are also going to stay in this open form as well, the flaws that the open nature eradicates outweighs the negatives.

Finaly the answer for me. 24 aoe cap has overall been perceived as good? (with result you dont want to see - a) faster fights in open fields, no place for tactic, just NUKE and if you have to fight against bomb WB, you can quit the game or feed enemy; b) healers in WB can only watch; c) during siege - neverending try to push against massive aoe when critical numbers of defenders are behind the wall; d) strong classes like BW/Engi/Sorc are even stronger compared to other classes (which are now to fill numbers only)...). Players who were against or suggested to lower the cap are nothing... their opinions nothing...
Sadly, not a good news for me.

But to be not so ... (you maybe will see me as a toxic...) I need to thank all devs for their work and hope their passion for the game will stay. Thank you for the possiblity to play this game, it was nice to try it Wish you all the best guys.

How can you not get it? For the first time in Warhammers history, can a 12 man WB actually kill a 24 man WB - this could NEVER be accomplished before.
This is also equal to that a 24 man WB can kill (if done correctly) a mass blobb (order ju need to figured the "how").

You r against this?

[Jastojan]

xrealming is something that has been brought up many times before and is something that we are actively trying to stop from happening. There are numerous threads about this so not going to go into details on it, search if your interested.

AOE cap at 24 is staying, we might do some tweaks here and there but the change has overall been perceived as good and it gives a reason to not stack blobs as it was before. Stacking blobs to protect members from AOE is a cancerous thing as all it does it further promoote blobbing with no way to combat it.

Forts are also going to stay in this open form as well, the flaws that the open nature eradicates outweighs the negatives.

Finaly the answer for me. 24 aoe cap has overall been perceived as good? (with result you dont want to see - a) faster fights in open fields, no place for tactic, just NUKE and if you have to fight against bomb WB, you can quit the game or feed enemy; b) healers in WB can only watch; c) during siege - neverending try to push against massive aoe when critical numbers of defenders are behind the wall; d) strong classes like BW/Engi/Sorc are even stronger compared to other classes (which are now to fill numbers only)...). Players who were against or suggested to lower the cap are nothing... their opinions nothing...
Sadly, not a good news for me.

But to be not so ... (you maybe will see me as a toxic...) I need to thank all devs for their work and hope their passion for the game will stay. Thank you for the possiblity to play this game, it was nice to try it Wish you all the best guys.

How can you not get it? For the first time in Warhammers history, can a 12 man WB actually kill a 24 man WB - this could NEVER be accomplished before.
This is also equal to that a 24 man WB can kill (if done correctly) a mass blobb (order ju need to figured the "how").

You r against this?

I wrote what I am against and I am NOT the only one who thinks that this change was not a good idea in the "form" like it was made. Aoe cap was "thrown" into the field and many spells of classes (and whole classes) were not designed for this 24 aoe cap. From the point of view of healer and tank this was not a good change and from the point of view of other classes who can not deal aoe DPS too. I will not react anymore because it makes no sense. I wrote there is some other impact on the game because of latest changes and it causes some results which are ... not only good for the game. It is my opinion, not important...

[Direbloodykiller]

Finaly the answer for me. 24 aoe cap has overall been perceived as good? (with result you dont want to see - a) faster fights in open fields, no place for tactic, just NUKE and if you have to fight against bomb WB, you can quit the game or feed enemy; b) healers in WB can only watch; c) during siege - neverending try to push against massive aoe when critical numbers of defenders are behind the wall; d) strong classes like BW/Engi/Sorc are even stronger compared to other classes (which are now to fill numbers only)...). Players who were against or suggested to lower the cap are nothing... their opinions nothing...
Sadly, not a good news for me.

But to be not so ... (you maybe will see me as a toxic...) I need to thank all devs for their work and hope their passion for the game will stay. Thank you for the possiblity to play this game, it was nice to try it Wish you all the best guys.

How can you not get it? For the first time in Warhammers history, can a 12 man WB actually kill a 24 man WB - this could NEVER be accomplished before.
This is also equal to that a 24 man WB can kill (if done correctly) a mass blobb (order ju need to figured the "how").

You r against this?

I wrote what I am against and I am NOT the only one who thinks that this change was not a good idea in the "form" like it was made. Aoe cap was "thrown" into the field and many spells of classes (and whole classes) were not designed for this 24 aoe cap. From the point of view of healer and tank this was not a good change and from the point of view of other classes who can not deal aoe DPS too. I will not react anymore because it makes no sense. I wrote there is some other impact on the game because of latest changes and it causes some results which are ... not only good for the game. It is my opinion, not important...

I do agree upon what you are implying, though will you adress what im saying above?

[anarchypark]

How can you not get it? For the first time in Warhammers history, can a 12 man WB actually kill a 24 man WB - this could NEVER be accomplished before.
This is also equal to that a 24 man WB can kill (if done correctly) a mass blobb (order ju need to figured the "how").

You r against this?

that's pug vs bomb premade.
now bomb can kill pug zerg that's true.
there's no reason to play pug.
this change brought end to pug style. what will happen next?

you need 2 players tank/heal to support 1 bomb dps player.
numerous dps are without support. what do they do?
waiting something to leech.
pug won't form first, so waiting premade bomb or waiting high aao.

EDIT : here is good english feedback of waiting game from other thread.

Spoiler:

Example: It was Friday or Saturday? Destro could siege Reikland (then could go Reikwald to attack) or def /not to def Caledor (and then go Fell landing - def). Players saw the numbers of course... and here it begins. Many of destro players wanted to let order take the Caledor because there was much higher chance to be successful as a defenders in Fell landing (instead of trying to take Reikland and then trying to win the Reiklawald). So here started the calculations and other problems. Order looked like they wanted to go def Reiklwald because they knew that destro had higher chance to def the Fell landing successfuly. So noone wanted to push and there was a "black hole" in the time and here was the "nothing to do" because both sides were waitnig for the enemy. Some players were in Reikland and tried to siege and some players were in Caledor trying to decide to def or not not def... but nothing serious, nthing organized.

it's same as before.
difference is that
zerg seed was pugs before, now zerg seed is premade.

premade got more merit, that's good thing.
but it will be only bomb. 24vs24 bomb or 48vs48 bomb or 12vs24 bomb.
blob and aoe, max 6 button plays. bomb class or gtfo.

in daoc there was a melee train. no collision, unlimited assist on 1 target. choo choo
here in mythic's next pvp, melee collision. limited melee assist. ( rdps shooting had no limit in both games. )
aoe target limit shared same goal of limited assist. now it's gone. back to daoc era?

as tank main, you are facing 8+ dps assist easily.
bomb dps players having fun, no doubt.

dungeon gearing and fashion hammer is remaining fun for me. rpg part.
not sure how fun city 24vs24 will be. i know there is the phoenix helm for SM so...

[randomeclipse]

Is there any other way to get Invader if you don't want to do Forts?

[CountTalabecland]

Is there any other way to get Invader if you don't want to do Forts?

You get 1 medal for winning a defense of the zone prior.
Otherwise forts are the only way.

[CountTalabecland]

I think Reikland today was a good demonstration of why blob band is still the way to win. Order was split into 3 or so guild bands and got consecutively stomped by destro 3 wb blob. Doesnt matter how many people 24 can hit with AoE, they will always die to 72. Just encourages more blob banding. Not sure changing AoE cap change is stopping people from x realming to join the bigger blob. The Zerg lives!

[Aethilmar]

1) The folks who think that people are only now throwing zones to get to fort have short memories. This was happening with the reservation system as well. Fight long enough to get your reservation then let them take the zone to get to fort. Hell, there were guilds pre-positioning themselves to be first into fort when the reservation system was in place.

The problem with people throwing zones to get to fort is now and always has been about it being the only place to efficiently gather Invader gear or Invader medallions.

2) The assertion that somehow the AOE cap has been well received is erroneous. The polling on it was split roughly evenly in the feedback thread. And while I think it is hilarious to AOE knockback an entire warband now, it does handicap certain classes and play styles. Further it doesn't actually stop zergs from zerging. It just lets certain guilds get more kills and not feel bad about themselves b/c they had a wipe.

[Natherul]

Aoe cap was "thrown" into the field and many spells of classes (and whole classes) were not designed for this 24 aoe cap.

Just as a clarification, you know that the original game has no aoe caps. Right? RoR added AOE caps with the reasoning that a blob can annihilate any force with aoe. Problem is that they still could as long as the other side was less then cap and it also helped the blob as it protected them from damage.

EDIT:
And to clarify Im all for giving more tools to fight the blob as its something we have been trying to address many times, though having and AOE cap (and especially a low one) counters any other effort to fight the blob.

[wonshot]

Aoe cap was "thrown" into the field and many spells of classes (and whole classes) were not designed for this 24 aoe cap.

Just as a clarification, you know that the original game has no aoe caps. Right? RoR added AOE caps with the reasoning that a blob can annihilate any force with aoe. Problem is that they still could as long as the other side was less then cap and it also helped the blob as it protected them from damage.

EDIT:
And to clarify Im all for giving more tools to fight the blob as its something we have been trying to address many times, though having and AOE cap (and especially a low one) counters any other effort to fight the blob.

Looking at the previous attempts
- aao scaling with more damage for the underdogs
- Aoe cap changes
- morale rate
etc

maybe instead of just raw damage to try and deal with the zerging and safety in numbers by killing them, how about a more "control heavy" approach.
Im just spitballing here:
- hard CC have longer duration on you when zerging (aao related?) or just when X ammount of players are on an oRvR BO (not keep). Simply just to used the full meaning of the word Crowdcontrol, to control the masses.
- Soft CC (snares or slows) when in a big mass random mudpools spawn in the middle and back of the 100+ force all within (x feet of eachother) in the open. And will snare them to spread the numbers thin, due to the heavy ammount of footsteps
- Anti mount mechanic. If too many players are near eachother everyone will be dismouted and only guild Standards can be used to gain longlasting movementspeed increase for group/warband members of the standardholder (flee + charges still enable ofc) Will mean the zerg has to stop and wait for eachother or they will split. if people are unhappy with the dismount they will break off and the zerg will disolve their numbers abit and therefor spreading the action. A smaller enemy force and gave the suprice attack from cavalry charge advantage with more movementspeed.

All numbers and implimentations could ofc be fined tuned but just trying to think outside of the box. i personally like the mud idea with snares pools to split the zerg up in different speed levels to give lesser forces a chance to face them not all at once but staggered out a little.