[Magus, Engineer] Buff like in never released patch 1.4.9

[Vdova]

Yes, I should just let people I am arguing with on these forums use horrible arguments without pointing out that what they are posting makes absolutely no sense.

Great idea! Thanks for your input. I'll be sure to never use it.

And here's a tip for you: I'm not embellishing anything. If I wanted to embellish, I'd be talking about how my RR80 Magus was sooooo goood and would routinely beat RR100 players...

Yea...

No, actually if you stopped calling everything a fallacy and basing your arguments in "i know better" it would be plenty.

Hell, i doubt you even know what "fallacy" means, you just use it as your "i dont want to discuss this" triumph card.

You have two people who played magus talking what things are good about them while you insult both, call everything a fallacy and are hellbent in talking about how they are not a sorc and they dont do sorc damage.

For someone trying to mock others readiing comprehesion, picking up a book about it wouldnt do you harm.

I'm not calling "everything a fallacy" I'm calling fallacies fallacies. There is a large difference. My arguments are not based on "I know better", I give very specific reasoning for what I am writing.

I will help you out though since you are the only who clearly doesn't know what fallacies are (also is a "trump" card, not a "triumph" card.

These are the two primary logical fallacies I have to keep calling out:

The Ad Hominem
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

and the Straw Man
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Not only do I state which SPECFIC fallacious argument is being used directly when it is being used, but I am using the concept properly.

Do me a favor though. Prove your argument. Find an example of when I call an argument a logical fallacy, and prove that it isn't. Quote the post, and make your argument. If you aren't willing to do that, then why keep posting about how I am using the concept incorrectly when you offer no proof other than "you aren't using it right". I am specifically state what fallacies are being used and what statements those logical fallacies pertain to.

And seriously, why comment on my reading comprehension when you clearly do not understand what I am saying whatsoever.

You said, and I quote "talking about how they are not a sorc and don't do sorc damage." Please cite a single example where I ever stated such utter nonsense please. Because I am about to go back and state multiple examples where I am arguing that the Magus class does not need sorc level damage, but to make up for the damage discrepancy, they should have as much more utility than a sorc than a sorc has more damage.

Simply put, you do not at all, understand what I am writing. You clearly proved that by your last post. You misunderstand what I write, and then act all self-righteous about it. Good job.

But please, I'm waiting for you to prove your arguments. Cite where I am using the term logical fallacy wrong, and please cite where I am complaining that Maguses should do sorc level damage. I'll be around and waiting for you to make an actual argument that involves at least some coherency.

For clarity reasons, I will state my main point one more time for you, hopefully using simple and clear wording so you may understand it.

Sorcs and BWs do more significantly more damage than Engies and Maguses.

This is fine, intended, and what should be.

To compensate for the fact that the Engie and Magus careers do less damage, in the name of balance and parity, they should have some other sort of benefit over Sorcs and BWs.

It is my personal opinion, that the benefit that Engies and Maguses should have over Sorcs and BWs is that they should bring more utility and CC than Sorcs and BWs.

It is my personal opinion that the damage difference between BW/Sorcs and Engie/Maguses is far greater than the Utility difference. The BW and Sorc careers are significantly ahead in burst and lethal damage deal capabilties, and as a whole the Engie/Magus are only slightly ahead on utility.

Therefore, to properly balance and make the Engie/Magus good and well-rounded classes, they have always needed increases to their utility, commensurate to the discrepancy in damage between the two sub-archetypes.

(a counter argument could be made that BWs/Sorcs could use utility nerfs instead, but I fully believe that would be the wrong approach)

Probably the biggest wall of a text which has nothing to do with Magus, Engineer discussion. Leave Your mini wars to whisper/personel mail systém. Thank You

[foof]

[quote="foof"

Probably the biggest "out of context" wall of a text which has nothing to do with Magus, Engineer discussion. Leave Your mini wars to whisper/personel mail systém. Thank You

Read the second half of the post. It is not out of context whatsoever. I am making a very specific case for how Engies and Maguses should be balanced.

I certainly don't want to be talking about what logical fallacies are and how to properly argue. Unfortunately, the thread shifted that way. I do agree that this is starting to get out of hand. I'd much rather get back to actually discussing the classes.

Also, this post I am making is absolutely off-topic and out of context. I will take your advice and stop arguing about how to argue. I apologize for the disruption.

[Vdova]

Magus or engie does not need any major buff. Just making theyr pet insta cast without need to spent 1 tactic slot for it and lower CD on signal flare/withered soul (from 20s to 10s). Will bring them "in to a game".

But whatever. That is my opinion and devs already stated they will not balance skills until T4 so lets hope magus/engie will get some love in future.

[Azarael]

Probably the biggest wall of a text which has nothing to do with Magus, Engineer discussion. Leave Your mini wars to whisper/personel mail systém. Thank You

Backseat moderating.

[Jaycub]

Magus or engie does not need any major buff. Just making theyr pet insta cast without need to spent 1 tactic slot for it and lower CD on signal flare/withered soul (from 20s to 10s). Will bring them "in to a game".

This will do it for magus no doubt, and it is a buff to engineer. But I still think engineer needs some kind of way to improve their physical damage other than weapon skill or the weak armor debuff on turret that will get overwritten or becomes not needed in a group environment because of how armor debuffs stack (not at all?).

[foof]

For the Magus, here is what I would do, and what I believe would make it a well-rounded and viable class, I'll do the Engineer later, but any exactly mirrored abilities I would suggest the same changes for both. These suggestions will not take into account any new abilties/tactics or any ability/tactic swapping.

1. Do what is suggested by the OP in this thread.
2. Make instability not kill your pet (same goes for Engie)
3. Increase mine stagger to 5 seconds. (same goes for Engie).
4. Increase the range of the snare to somewhere in the 25-45ft range (same goes for Engie). Give it a 15 second cooldown.
5. Reduce disarm cast time to 1 second.

Those simple changes would go a long way to increasing the utility of the career, and making it much more viable in the larger meta. These are in general what you would call "QoL" (quality of life) balance changes, making the career have an easier time fufilling its role without significantly increasing the raw power of the career.

[Jaycub]

>mine stagger to 5 sec
>AoE 50 seconds of immunity to punts/roots etc...

PLEASE NO

Stagger honestly needs it's own type of immunity

[foof]

>mine stagger to 5 sec
>AoE 50 seconds of immunity to punts/roots etc...

PLEASE NO

Stagger honestly needs it's own type of immunity

Or, provide 1/2 of the immunity duration or something (so 25 seconds). Your suggestion to put it on a different immunity type is also very good.

Of course, suggested balance changes shouldn't happen in a vacuum.

I fully believe that 3 second staggers are in effect, pretty terrible. They are in every way just "bad knockdowns". I believe the change from 7-9 seconds (whatever they were) down to three was a huge knee-jerk over nerf.

[Jaycub]

3 sec staggers are basically interrupts, and thats how I used my mines when i played engineer. The CC immunity patch ruined magus/engineer because those classes traded in DPS for extremely good control. Thats why they ended up getting the 20% increased dmg eventually.

I still don't get why CC immunity timers are so long, they where added becuase people where complaining about chain stuns / combos... so the response was to make people immune for **** 30 seconds on average? It's way too long.

[Sulorie]

Someone here said that sorcs rarely use their ranged snare. This person should leave the discussion asap for the sake of common sense.