AM/Shaman and General Balance.

[peterthepan3]

DPS am/shammy are dealing the dot dmg that Magus dealt on live before they nerfed it so the ground so btw.

What? ST DoTs are the same to Magus Baleful/Withered with 8 stacks. AoE dots are going to be weaker than AM/Shaman ST DoTs because, well....they're AoE.

I had Pand ticking over and over again for 93 on a 2-handed KoTBS. And I saw it tick for 93 and 93 and 93 and 93 ... and 93 (EP slotted of course) before it finaly ended and I clicked on the respawn button. My word P2P, it was one of the better pand ticks all around on a 2-handed order tank.
But as you wrote, AoE dots are going to be clearly weaker.

Haha exactly

[live4treasure]

P2P could finaly agree in another thread that Havoc is clearly not suited for WB gameplay. Now if you're telling us that it's not that viable in a 6vs6 environment. So ?
What's Havoc specced Magus actually good for, except solo PVE pulling/farming single NPC's one after the others faster than anyone else?

If you haven't noticed, there are currently a number of fairly dysfunctional classes. Engineer, Scout/Skirmish SW, Magus, BW (arguably). I haven't seen shaman played or even attempted to by played in 6v6 as a DPS, so I don't know about how good it is in that content. Either way, what is your point? You are not the only class that isn't universally viable in all content. We can't all be marauders, slayers and choppas. The balance efforts will eventually reach all problematic classes.

[Warlogic]

Actually only the same few players cry on forums. ^_^

SIGN^^^

I always wonder WHY people think about AM/Shaman being OP, and how they get to that point.
I mean, did you attack an AM with choppa and died? i've got killed by good WE's all day long.
Did i open a ****** thread about WE/WH Balance? hell no!

It's a party and (sadly)warband oriented game... If you see an AM / Shaman getting all kills in a 6v6, send that screen and we can talk about balance, otherwise just take it when you get killed 1v1

I don't have too many complaints about AM/sham all-in-all, but I will say that in 3 scenarios in a row for r16-31 two days ago I watched a 26 shaman put up 180k damage with 25+ db's, and none of the 3 went to a full 15 minutes. Next highest DPS for destro or order either one was ~65k each. It could be vastly different in T4, or could have been for any number of other reasons. However, I did find that to be a bit excessive, especially when he also put up at least 60-70k heals each match on top of it. I don't think any other class could have come close to putting up those kinds of numbers at that rank. Again, not complaining, just an observation from my personal experience in RoR so far (which is admittedly pretty minimal).

[Jimsey0000]

hello ,

1st of all i dont post much as u guys can see. but atm some serious issues are been happening for a while and i think i hold my tongue long enough.
before i go any further , i want to say THANK YOU to all of those who are working on making this game happening, all of us should be very great full.so thank you all of you.

now, i know this may get me ban but heck, since no destro is talking and only order is whining on forums ill give it a go.

The am and sham dmg need to be fixed , why in the world a healer archetype could do so much dps just boggles me.the heal specced healers arent that good compared to the hybrid counterparts. the disrupt change didn't helped at all for those like me who are just healers, and if u want to talk about dok i know some of them who are really angry at the way their heal goes out for now and their cost, their chalice doesn't work great i don't know much about its mechanics, Elvasoul could tell us more, but apparently its really bad the way its working atm,i am talking heal specced ofc.

that engie 25% armor penetration buff they get from tactic or whatever wasn't needed at all. they do way enough dps as it was before.

That BW bomb wb they do need to be reworked as well.

Now all of you order can whine back at me ancomplaint i dont really care anymore, all i see is the hardcore destro leaving or playing less and less because of the way things are.

i dont talk often but enough is enough

I wholeheartedly agree. I am so sick of the "jack of all trades, master of everything" AM. I have played the server for 2 years, and finally the only viable spec for a chosen (full regen, full tank) no longer works anymore, all due to the constant buffs to RDPS;
If you are full discord spec, with all the anti-magic tactics, and you have 100hps per sec regen, and high resists, you *will* be forced off a point in just a few second by a solitary DPS AM. If you have a shield equipped, that will delay the inevitable for another whopping 5 seconds. What's more is, the disrupt no longer even seems to be a thing, not to mention syphoned energy seems to be disabled now. That can equal literally thousands more damage over the course of a few seconds that the person on the receiving end has to deal with than they used to. One of the main devs said plainly he wouldn't revert the disrupt dynamic this server has, because then everyone would be forced to spec RR a certain way just to stay alive within the vicinity of RDPS. Well that is now here. Engineers are just as bad. Between the 50 percent damage buff they were given years ago, and the new 25 percent armor penetration buff, i'm constantly getting hit for 600 non-crit by them, with 4k armor, 1k toughness.

Tanks are pretty much obsolete currently and I think it's time to just shelf my character and get back into modern MMO pvp for now. The good thing about Apoc, is yes RDPS hits hard (not as hard as here) but when you get to them, you can 3 shot them... lol. Why should melee class archetypes with no mobility be so vulnerable to classes that have multiple get out of jail free cards, and can pick and choose their targets with ease, can run while shooting/casting can snare while shooting/casting? A tank *cannot* choose their targets in this game. If you are full regen/defense they shouldn't be able to force a chase on you, or you simply die. They should be forced to disengage and find another DPS spec to cheese to death. Another thing about RDPS (and mdps) has anyone noticed they can conveniently circumvent the GCD yet, tanks are the only archetype that can't? You can look back in your combat log and it looks like this:
You hit X
Y hits you
Y hits you
Y hits you
Y hits you
Y hits you
Y hits you
Y hits you
Y hits you
Y hits you
You hit X

All the more reason to make each individual hit by DPS classes to hit much lighter.
Compare chosen channeled ability to the AM's for example; it is totally laughable... and it's only activated at melee rather than range... and chosen aren't also HEALERS in addition to having tankability while simultaneously having DPS. And if a chosen is DPS he is pure glass, whereas that is absolutely not the case with the AM.

(On a side note about channeled abilities, relentless wasn't meant to be magic damage; ravage was supposed to hit so hard it didn't need a channeled ability; Mythic made relentless to compliment cleave, and not ravage, that's the reason they did it the way they did, just for the record.)

The only way AM could possibly be balanced right now, is if all other classes had the ability to 2 or 3 shot them.
If a DPS chosen can't force a full regen tank AM off of a point, then a DPS AM sure as heck shouldn't be able to force a full tank regen chosen off a point.

[peterthepan3]

I am struggling to understand how a full tanky Chosen (full tough/resi/hp regen/block/D+D) is dying to 1 DPS AM in so fast a time, when a defensive Magus can outlive DPS AM indefinitely.

Also: 4k armor isn't a huge deal whatsoever on a SNB tank. Engineer can armor debuff + demolishing strike you down to circa 1.5k values, then factor in APR (25% pen) and WS = you will be pretty squishy for the duration of APR and DS. You need much higher levels of armor.

(Bear in mind that Sorc/BW/Magus can hit tanks consistently hard).

[Sulorie]

What is your chosen name?

[Jimsey0000]

Actually only the same few players cry on forums. ^_^

Ah so THAT'S the reason why this server lost several hundred players over the course of a year or so, and drove some of the admins to quit, and start working on their own server. It's only the forum people who cry, after all, nobody else could possibly be disapponted with the way things are going.

[Jimsey0000]

So my english is bad, not my native language, sorry about it, but you get what I mean, so can I get an answer for my question now ?

You got your answer.
There is no balance for 1vs1 and the moment you get a healer, that engi can do nothing.
Stop running alone as a tank, when you fear you might die in rvr.

You got your answer.
There is no balance for 1vs1 and the moment you get a healer, that tank can do nothing.
Stop running alone as a engineer, when you fear you might die in rvr.

You got your answer.
There is no balance for 1vs1 and the moment you get a healer, that healer can do nothing.
Stop running alone as a BW, when you fear you might die in rvr.

so with this logic taken to it's conclusion, tanks are the only ones who should be vulnrable, while running around solo.

Lol reminds me of the old DAOC drawing i did, of King Arthur's Knights cowering hiding behind the coat-tails of Merlin, and Robin hood. The player base here should rename this game dark age of castalot 2.0 since they hate tanks even more than Mythic did.

[Sulorie]

Actually only the same few players cry on forums. ^_^

Ah so THAT'S the reason why this server lost several hundred players over the course of a year or so, and drove some of the admins to quit, and start working on their own server. It's only the forum people who cry, after all, nobody else could possibly be disapponted with the way things are going.

I am sure the population isn't gone, because certain shield tanks fail to survive against a single magical rdps. Casters btw are originally the archetype counter to tanks.
You whole post begs the question, why you sit on a flag waiting. It's not like this is the fastest way to progress in this game.

So who is your chosen? Burnheart by any chance?

[Arteker616]

Wasnt forgetting, but it also has an ailment requirement which isnt a big deal. SW/SH is arguably better, but 10 seconds is really as short as you need one to be.

Even if you want to say the SH/SW HD is better, Scatter the Winds is still better than the vast majority of HD that dps have. Especially when you compare it to that Sorc HD.

You are right though I was talking about the AM heal debuff. Dont really have an issue with the Shaman HD.

It's not game breaking in any way, but it doesnt really make sense why they need such a good HD.

My argument is what dps class wouldnt trade their HD for the AM HD? SH/SW maybe? Maybe Marauder because of tactics?

Since when do sorc had a HD. give the man a cookie
AM still have serious advenmtage with his debuffs over shaman, namely 2 very important wich would lead always to a victory of the am .
1: am can cleanse gobo ap drain, gobo cannot clean it.
2: gobo cannot clean the am hd . since it do count as hex . ams do can.
and letas not forget am hd almost got no downtime just 1 sec , while gobo still got 10 ahead