[FEEDBACK] On The Times Involved in Keep Sieges

[freshour]

Just had a 3 wb keep take vs maybe 2 wb's of order. after nearly 2 hours we got the outer down. But oil respawn time was close to 1 minute, maybe 90 seconds so we couldn't push through their tank wall without having oil destro us.

Ram wouldn't come up as it said a ram was already there and there was no ram in sight. Github said he could not fix it either but he had to go so not sure if that is a fixable bug. It still seems door hp is a litttttle too high maybe 75% of current value would be better. Also cannons still hit door for 2k, so maybe 10k door damage from cannons would make them worth their 5g.

Oil HP is very good at the moment as it can go down, but you still get a few goes at it even if max cannons are up firing at it. RvR seems pretty close as far as keep sieges go. I'm not sure if range can target oil, but unless you have a ton of cannons up it seems pretty insane to take down as long as the defense isn't giving your mdps free reign over the keep.

[Genisaurus]

Just had a 3 wb keep take vs maybe 2 wb's of order. after nearly 2 hours we got the outer down. But oil respawn time was close to 1 minute, maybe 90 seconds so we couldn't push through their tank wall without having oil destro us.

Ram wouldn't come up as it said a ram was already there and there was no ram in sight. Github said he could not fix it either but he had to go so not sure if that is a fixable bug. It still seems door hp is a litttttle too high maybe 75% of current value would be better. Also cannons still hit door for 2k, so maybe 10k door damage from cannons would make them worth their 5g.

Oil HP is very good at the moment as it can go down, but you still get a few goes at it even if max cannons are up firing at it. RvR seems pretty close as far as keep sieges go. I'm not sure if range can target oil, but unless you have a ton of cannons up it seems pretty insane to take down as long as the defense isn't giving your mdps free reign over the keep.

I have identified two bugs that will be fixed in the next patch. The first allows oil to be replaced faster than intended under certain circumstances, and the other causes the ram to not properly clear when it dies, preventing another from replacing it. Thanks for the feedback.

[freshour]

Nice!!! I think most of the leecher/freenowners are sorta coming around as well. They've realized they can't do that anymore and even some older Order players who preferred free BO's and keeps are getting in the mix of fighting.

With those two fixes I think they will be in a much better place. Is there any possible way cannons could come down from 5G? I went through over 30 of them in one siege laying them down for people to take out oil. Maybe reduced price if you buy more? 2-3 gold seems much more doable as it will take quite a few of them as they are the primary way to get oil down once the defense actually shows up.

[drmordread]

I was at the same siege this morning but on the inside. Lowering door HP may need to be done, but there were two thing that I was thinking about that could help sieges go faster;

1- the 5 siege weapon limit (not counting ram and oil) per side. If more siege could be deployed, (a) doors would go down faster and (b) defenders could counter battery fire faster.

2- Increase player damage vs door. Even if rams get bugged (and that would happen on live all the time) players and siege could still do a reasonable amount of damage in a reasonable amount of time.

3- Incendiary pots; Once fixed and added to game, could be sold as well at the foreman at each keep. Maybe 10-50 silver a piece and with a 60 ft range (otherwise they do not reach top of walls and defenders would be the only ones using them)

[Smilingdeath]

Please share your experiences with keep sieges, and try to cover the following points:

1. Did the doors take too long to destroy? Were they too easy?
The Doors took entirely to long to destroy, even with all BOs captured by the attackers.

2. Did you find using cannons on the door to be a solid strategy, particularly for MDPS or tanks who can't fit on the ram? The Cannons were doing approximately 1900 points to players, siege gear, and door.

3. Did you find that cannons were too hard to destroy? Too easy?
The cannons seems to be a little difficult to destroy using other cannons, but not terrible and I was able to destroy several of them.

4. Does the 3min cooldown on deploying an oil or ram seem like too long? too short?
I thought the cooldown on the oil was less than 3 minutes at the order keeps, to be honest. I know the damage from the oil was really massive to anyone on the ram. The ram should provide a LOT of protection to the players that are using it. Add an Engineer/Magus pulling everyone from large distances, and sometimes without LOS on the player into the oil is ridiculous, The range on the ability needs to be decreased as well as a counter or resistance check to be added to avoid the pull as it then allows the farming of large numbers of players at a keep by the Engineer/Magus and whoever is using the oil. Some of the keep Ranged DPS cannot see the oil, particularly the outer oil, to deal damage and are forced to only rely on the Cannons to destroy it. Other keeps have obstacles around the Destruction keeps that allow Order players to climb onto them and kill the defenders that are manning the inner keep defenses, These should be removed as even chaos is not bad enough at designing their keep defense to place structures like that near their walls and inner keeps, this was an existing problem from the Live Version however.

The Cool down on the Ram seems to be OK, however the players on the Ram recieve entirely to much damage and most healers are not able to even begin to heal thru the damage and the entire ram crew is dead after 1 pouring of the oil.

5. As a defender, do you feel like recapturing BOs adds enough regeneration to be an effective strategy? I watched Order capture (1) one BO in Thunder Mountain and it shut an entire Siege down, as the inner door was no longer able to be damaged. Then waiting for 15 minutes before it could be recaptured ended to push for that entire zone. A Single objective being captured should not stop a zone take, however if all the objectives were captured I could understand the door becoming immune to damage.

6. Do you feel like you had enough time to reach a besieged keep to defend it? Yes, most maps there is plenty of time to reach a keep before even the outer door is destroyed.


While it was not included into the questions that were asked in regards to feedback, I have to point out that there are no rewards for capturing the objectives or defending them. This makes it highly unlikely that a group or more of players will stay on an objective to defend it while the players at the keep siege are receiving constant RP, EXP, Gold, and Loot rewards. These is no incentive for the players to defend other than at a keep, and this can definitely cause problems.

[Mafti]

While it was not included into the questions that were asked in regards to feedback, I have to point out that there are no rewards for capturing the objectives or defending them. This makes it highly unlikely that a group or more of players will stay on an objective to defend it while the players at the keep siege are receiving constant RP, EXP, Gold, and Loot rewards. These is no incentive for the players to defend other than at a keep, and this can definitely cause problems.

I agree with this.
Personally I do like the idea of having the focus on the keeps and not the BO's.
So in a way, I prefer NOT to have immediate loot on BO's,
but defending BO's or recapturing BO's need to be taken into account for the loot-rolls in the keeps.
I understand this would be somewhat tricky to track.
But ideally roaming warbands should be rewarded as such as well

[drmordread]

While it was not included into the questions that were asked in regards to feedback, I have to point out that there are no rewards for capturing the objectives or defending them. This makes it highly unlikely that a group or more of players will stay on an objective to defend it while the players at the keep siege are receiving constant RP, EXP, Gold, and Loot rewards. These is no incentive for the players to defend other than at a keep, and this can definitely cause problems.

ditto

[th3gatekeeper]

Just had a 3 wb keep take vs maybe 2 wb's of order. after nearly 2 hours we got the outer down. But oil respawn time was close to 1 minute, maybe 90 seconds so we couldn't push through their tank wall without having oil destro us.

Ram wouldn't come up as it said a ram was already there and there was no ram in sight. Github said he could not fix it either but he had to go so not sure if that is a fixable bug. It still seems door hp is a litttttle too high maybe 75% of current value would be better. Also cannons still hit door for 2k, so maybe 10k door damage from cannons would make them worth their 5g.

Oil HP is very good at the moment as it can go down, but you still get a few goes at it even if max cannons are up firing at it. RvR seems pretty close as far as keep sieges go. I'm not sure if range can target oil, but unless you have a ton of cannons up it seems pretty insane to take down as long as the defense isn't giving your mdps free reign over the keep.

Was at this same event for a while this morning. It took FOREVER to get outer door down (due to ram bug) and once we did, it was FAR too easy for the defense to tank wall up and drop oil down on the offense... Oil wiped a ton of people then Order rushed out and cleaned everyone else up. Considering the entire thing took 1-2 hours, morale was KILLED from this and many people quit (or logged their order guys).

I was thinking... Given that Oil can be used effectively as defense - even after the door busts down. Would it not be possible to bump the damage of Canons so you can attack tank walls once the door is down to bust up some of the defense? If canons became as "valuable" as oil, more people would buy them and use them and they could make a bigger swing on the field - like Oil... I know on defense with Oil up, you can wipe an entire warband by yourself. Infact I know it happens ALL THE TIME where a guy leaves his WB, drops oil and nets 20+ kills to himself racking up the influence.

Making Canons deal some fatty AoE damage against other payers could make it an effective bomb against players once the door is down, giving attackers some good tools to try and break through to the inner door. Just a thought....

[FourLeafClover]

I agree. The oil needs to be powerful. A determined warband won't be stopped by some oil. It's a delayer and a force multiplier if timed with a sally by the defenders, which is a welcome layer of tactical play.

Rez's are a thing, and people who die to the oil get rezed pretty fast

[freshour]

Really think increased damage to the cannons would help. The AOE cannon if it netted like 1k at its current fire rate which is super slow as is the single target. You could at least suppress the RDPS on the walls a bit. But the single shot cannon should be more damage to a door than any class could do in that time of fire.

I mean you spent 5 gold on this thing. It should hit a door for 10-20k. Even at that rate it wouldn't be insanely high DPS and the keep takes would still take a while. But it'd sure make people wanna buy some cannons. Especially since nearly each round of oil, the cannons have been destroyed and have to be redeployed. I mean I bet that dwarf RP crazies would love to set up a ton of cannons in a line and role play their hearts out haha.

RvR is a lot closer than you guys think to being awesome again. Really think you should take the influence from BO's and add it to kill quests. I've gotten hundreds of kills in dwarf, failed 10 keep takes with 2+ warbands each, had 5 doors bug on me, and the rest were wiped by significantly less oil, I mean order with oil. And it is a good thing I am an optimist haha because I keep going at it.

But eventually the guys like me who say f it and get a group to try and take the impossible are gonna burn out. I'm not making a threat or anything silly like that, but I've heard bandaid fixes aren't the way to go blah blah blah by several people. But maybe in some cases they aren't a horrible idea. Every few days try something different, rather than spend weeks on an idea only to have it fail. Everyone already knows its temporary. Could even vote on it at the end and see what people liked the most.