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[SUGGESTION] Magus/Engi Changes for the interim...

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Renork
Posts: 1208

Re: [SUGGESTION] Magus/Engi Changes for the interim...

Post#81 » Fri Dec 25, 2015 6:44 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:^ Agreed with Renork.

You -DO- realise you get a tactic that increases your Changing abilities' range by 25% or so, right? Why are you petitioning for range when that will have NO bearing whatsoever on EITHER of these classes.
Do you even play a Magus? Do you know how inherently weak it is compared to other classes? Have any of our complaints pertained to the range of Magi abilities? No.

Please stop. Engi and Magus have exactly the same range, so I don't know what you're getting at.

Btw any group bringing an engineer as a secondary healer does not deserve mentioning.

Renork is a good player of the Magus, actually - unlike you, I'm sure!

Just an observation regarding SilverWF,

This guy goes out of his to post the most random and whacked ideas and tries to defend them incoherently. The moment you disagree with him, he will just throw random faces at you and make himself believe that somehow he's right and you're wrong. I highly doubt this clown cares about eng/magus, he just wants to impose his ideas on everyone else, but that's just what he does in EVERY thread. So yeah GG, not worth the time.

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SilverWF
Suspended
Posts: 606

Re: [SUGGESTION] Magus/Engi Changes for the interim...

Post#82 » Fri Dec 25, 2015 6:48 pm

Renork wrote:
peterthepan3 wrote:^ Agreed with Renork.

You -DO- realise you get a tactic that increases your Changing abilities' range by 25% or so, right? Why are you petitioning for range when that will have NO bearing whatsoever on EITHER of these classes.
Do you even play a Magus? Do you know how inherently weak it is compared to other classes? Have any of our complaints pertained to the range of Magi abilities? No.

Please stop. Engi and Magus have exactly the same range, so I don't know what you're getting at.

Btw any group bringing an engineer as a secondary healer does not deserve mentioning.

Renork is a good player of the Magus, actually - unlike you, I'm sure!

Just an observation regarding SilverWF,

This guy goes out of his to post the most random and whacked ideas and tries to defend them incoherently. The moment you disagree with him, he will just throw random faces at you and make himself believe that somehow he's right and you're wrong. I highly doubt this clown cares about eng/magus, he just wants to impose his ideas on everyone else, but that's just what he does in EVERY thread. So yeah GG, not worth the time.
If you are disagree with me, try to take my points and disaproove it with solid argument, I hope, you know what it mean.

But now all you posts sounds like upset kid, which favorite toy was just broken

And you are spent 3rd post on something that "does not woth time" - it is called selfown, you know.
Bretin: "destru classes are in general better for solo play" :lol:
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wargrimnir
Head Game Master
Posts: 8413
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Re: [SUGGESTION] Magus/Engi Changes for the interim...

Post#83 » Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:50 am

SilverWF wrote: If you are disagree with me, try to take my points and disaproove it with solid argument, I hope, you know what it mean.

But now all you posts sounds like upset kid, which favorite toy was just broken

And you are spent 3rd post on something that "does not woth time" - it is called selfown, you know.
Stop posting in this thread. Do not respond to this post outside of a PM. This is not a request.
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jojomen
Posts: 143

Re: [SUGGESTION] Magus/Engi Changes for the interim...

Post#84 » Sat Dec 26, 2015 10:33 am

Lol, now after nerf of SW - t1 t2 t3 sc (just gathering of all kinds engineers 5-7 per sc)
I didnt know why ppl cry so much about low damage of "engineers\magus" compered to SH\SW
armor buff+armor tactic+KEG hell do you ever fight against them - and now GIVE them more damage?)
any normal Engi is able to put 4 DOTs on enemy = and finish them with any type of kite slow-KD-knockback.
"oh my DOTS is useless" they said - just try to put 4 of them on target - 4 crits with dots -1200 hp in t3....
jojomen wrote:Oh comon man, ofc its more based on ppl preference :
Order : (GUNS+FIREBALLS+bowmaster) ofc all ppl wonna be sexy archer or mage.
Destro : (SWORD+muscle CHOSEN, big foot orcs, alex mercer) tough and Manly males.

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Tesq
Posts: 5713

Re: [SUGGESTION] Magus/Engi Changes for the interim...

Post#85 » Sat Dec 26, 2015 10:46 am

@jojomen the changes to engi/magus was done regard a path that most magus/engi do not use atm.
Most of us go middle path due the aoe pot and the resistence debuffif if you wanna do damage or either right path for pull bot
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Korhill
Posts: 114

Re: [SUGGESTION] Magus/Engi Changes for the interim...

Post#86 » Sat Dec 26, 2015 12:08 pm

Please just be carfull with those two classes. Both were not weak and we wont have rr100 what was really bad for the engi. Magus damage was never really bad at all.
Just dont make them to "gods" because some players want to improve there class. I really would have wait for t4 first.

Greetings

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: [SUGGESTION] Magus/Engi Changes for the interim...

Post#87 » Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:41 pm

jojomen wrote:Lol, now after nerf of SW - t1 t2 t3 sc (just gathering of all kinds engineers 5-7 per sc)
I didnt know why ppl cry so much about low damage of "engineers\magus" compered to SH\SW
armor buff+armor tactic+KEG hell do you ever fight against them - and now GIVE them more damage?)
any normal Engi is able to put 4 DOTs on enemy = and finish them with any type of kite slow-KD-knockback.
"oh my DOTS is useless" they said - just try to put 4 of them on target - 4 crits with dots -1200 hp in t3....
You finish your enemies with a kb and 3 weak dots = these enemies aren't worth mentioning. Go up against orz with this approach and get back to me xD

Aside: racial banter! But why are most of the people commenting crap russian magi? IM yet to see one ingame. Racial banter tags off.
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Warpes
Posts: 29

Re: [SUGGESTION] Magus/Engi Changes for the interim...

Post#88 » Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:59 pm

peterthepan3 wrote:1) your point is rendered null as this server, I reiterate, will not have WF.
2) giving the class more single-target damage, CC options and more of a defined role in a competitive environment is pushing the class in the wrong environment? Ok
3) the stagger has nothing to do with the class' single-target capabilities/concerns....wtf?
4) Agreed. shorter cd/duration or some anti-cleanse abilities
5) Oh okay then, if you spec into single-target you SHOULD be using aoe skills as well. that's why you see agony/calamity sorcerers always using pit of shades, white lions using their AOE spammable, single target marauders spamming demolition....oh wait. If you're going to have personal digs at me, at least log your Magus and lets see who plays the class better with a more thorough understanding. I won't reply in kind to someone that seems determined to keep the class as it is, using petty digs.
6) Then what IS the correct way to play a single-target tree revolving around a huge nuke?! Jesus christ, have you played the class, rift aside?
1) Again it was an example number, nothing to do with WF itself. How are you missing the point here so hard?
2) Giving the class increased dot and pet scaling is all it needs if anything, and anything else pushes the class in the wrong direction. Stagger was a needed buff, but all of YOUR original suggestions were unwarranted and push the class in the wrong direction, again a point you still miss.
3) Did I say it did or didn't either way? Doing it on purpose now or are you legitimately this dense?

5) Terrible straw man argument, and even still many ST Sorcs DO in fact use Shattered Shadows when AoEing is appropriate. Magi are also not Sorcs, this is something a "magus main" would understand.
We rely far more heavily on ALL of our Dots and abilities, and being specced one way does not change this even if their dmg is slightly lower. Just as one would use IB/Lash at times, even if specced changing, for example. You are not limited to only abilities in the tree(s) you specced into. And newflash: AoE Dot ticks also affect individual targets.
All of these points are something one would call "thinking outside the box" rather than expecting a Sorc without backlash. Yet we CAN perform at least as well as them, if the skill and knowledge is there.
6) Again, you're not a Sorc, and even in trying to be that your "6-7s rotation" for burst is incorrect. You also fail to understand a simple fact like BoC having slow travel time, giving you enough time to cast a Flickering Red Fire inbetween BoC and SVF, aiming to land all 3 land in the same timestamp.
Do I really have to break down to you how a Magus is played and it's full rotations?

TLDR; Someone who argues in advice chat for so long that magus are such a terrible, useless class other than "rift spamming", has absolutely no right dictacting what it is that they need.

And you've proven from your very first post that this is the case, and that you plain and simply do not understand the class, much less what it needs. I want what's best for the class, you clearly want what's best for YOU.

The stagger buff WASNT EVEN your suggestion lol... but you're taking credit for it or what, just so you can win an argument? Really now?

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Warpes
Posts: 29

Re: [SUGGESTION] Magus/Engi Changes for the interim...

Post#89 » Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:11 pm

jojomen wrote:Lol, now after nerf of SW - t1 t2 t3 sc (just gathering of all kinds engineers 5-7 per sc)
I didnt know why ppl cry so much about low damage of "engineers\magus" compered to SH\SW
armor buff+armor tactic+KEG hell do you ever fight against them - and now GIVE them more damage?)
any normal Engi is able to put 4 DOTs on enemy = and finish them with any type of kite slow-KD-knockback.
"oh my DOTS is useless" they said - just try to put 4 of them on target - 4 crits with dots -1200 hp in t3....
In fairness, the issue isn't quite so much with T3, as it is with T4.

The issue is with SCALING of said dots, as well as pet scaling being even worse - and the reliance of said crappy pet to be within a short distance of us for a buff to our damage. The effectiveness of certain dots versus how easily they're cleansed is the biggest problem for them.

There's certainly other things that could be tweaked, but the same is true with all classes.
Last edited by Warpes on Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: [SUGGESTION] Magus/Engi Changes for the interim...

Post#90 » Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:12 pm

Warpes wrote: 1) Again it was an example number, nothing to do with WF itself. How are you missing the point here so hard?
2) Giving the class increased dot and pet scaling is all it needs if anything, and anything else pushes the class in the wrong direction. Stagger was a needed buff, but all of YOUR original suggestions were unwarranted and push the class in the wrong direction, again a point you still miss.
3) Did I say it did or didn't either way? Doing it on purpose now or are you legitimately this dense?

5) Terrible straw man argument, and even still many ST Sorcs DO in fact use Shattered Shadows when AoEing is appropriate. Magi are also not Sorcs, this is something a "magus main" would understand.
We rely far more heavily on ALL of our Dots and abilities, and being specced one way does not change this even if their dmg is slightly lower. Just as one would use IB/Lash at times, even if specced changing, for example. You are not limited to only abilities in the tree(s) you specced into. And newflash: AoE Dot ticks also affect individual targets.
All of these points are something one would call "thinking outside the box" rather than expecting a Sorc without backlash. Yet we CAN perform at least as well as them, if the skill and knowledge is there.
6) Again, you're not a Sorc, and even in trying to be that your "6-7s rotation" for burst is incorrect. You also fail to understand a simple fact like BoC having slow travel time, giving you enough time to cast a Flickering Red Fire inbetween BoC and SVF, aiming to land all 3 land in the same timestamp.
Do I really have to break down to you how a Magus is played and it's full rotations?

TLDR; Someone who argues in advice chat for so long that magus are such a terrible, useless class other than "rift spamming", has absolutely no right dictacting what it is that they need. And you've proven from your very first post that this is the case, and that you plain and simply do not understand the class, much less what it needs. I want what's best for the class, you clearly want what's best for you.

The stagger buff WASNT EVEN your suggestion lol... but you're taking credit for it or what, just so you can win an argument? Really now?

Oh boy...
first and foremost - when/where did I take credit for it? at the very least I would say that due to the ideas renork, myself, and other people put forward, these changes were -partially- conceived. all credit, of course, goes to the devs - but I didn't see you offering many suggestions.

1) Magus with WF could do respectable damage, and with LOTD stuff. Given that: a) WF won't be in the game; b) LOTD will not be/some gear won't be available, I don't understand why you'd mention them?
2) Before we proceed, I must inquire as to what the 'right' direction is for a class that: hasn't a definite role; gets outperformed by other classes in almost everything except rift. If boosting the single-target damage as a TEMPORARY BANDAID (as I have said various times) until a class overhaul can be discussed is a bad thing - then okay.
3) You mentioned you like the 5 second stagger, and then went on to say "But at the same time, thinking that the 5 sec buff, along with everything else you want, as being necessary to fix Magus/Engi, just goes to show why so many people fail at them with Single Target." There is not relevance between the two whatsoever, hence my inquiring.
5) I didn't say that they don't; more, if you are spec'd single-target then that is where your priority lies. Changing and Daemon are a lot more attuned to AOE than Havoc; Havoc IS the single-target tree. That doesn't say you can't use your aoe dots (you should when given opportune moments to do so); but your focus will be 1/2 dots and trying to burst people down. I don't understand why you can't grasp this.
6) As a Havoc Magus on live, I know how the burst rotation works - but thanks anyway. Bolt of Change takes 3 seconds to cast, you will cast a SOI and then follow up with a SVF at the exact time for maximum damage - all in all taking around 6 seconds (not including time for DOTs to be applied). If you're using FRF at R40 ST DPS spec then you are doing it wrong. Two words: Surging Power.

I petition for the class to have some changes, that is all. The Magus isn't TERRIBLE; but has no role, nor niche - outside of riftbot. You are just another silent ninja who will say nothing until the moment beneficial changes are implemented, and THEN shout down people for -actively- trying to buff a class that needs it.

I think I saw you in a scenario a few days ago, and if that was indeed you then perhaps you should not be so vocal here.
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