[RvR] Encourage Team Play and Zone Locks

[Fallenkezef]

Is it? Got some empirical data? Or a hunch?

I'm talking the lootsystem.

yes, I can log in, get contri myself for the zone like Auri explained it here.

log next char. get contri.
log next char. get contri.
log next char. get contri.

play something else.
come back. check timers. may loot my bags.

wander to next zone.
log next char. get contri.
log next char. get contri.
log next char. get contri.

rinse and repeat.

have a full equipped char after a couple of weeks without even playing the game.

should be enough explaining.

You did it? It work like that?

I wish it did

[Fallenkezef]

All I have find to play in Guild or 6 mans is just kill and forget Objectives.

I like all style of play for a War game because this is more realistik but I don't like to focus on kill only and avoid the Obectives because this make us predictable and weak.

Many of premade and some guild play just look like "skinners" of battlefield or pillagers mercenaries from the middle age.

I m not against their style play as I say, because this is realistic in all wars to have some pillagers and killers, for the stress and rage, but their style play is not the reality of a War conflict game, and more a Warhammer conflict, who are all about the Realms.

You just preach for the guildpride here not for the inteligence of the War game.

It's because playing the objectives gives you NOTHING. How can't people understand this? Why should our wb stand on a bo and defend it and get a couple rr ticks, while we can roam around hunting other wbs, where rr gain is exponentially higher? I personally don't care about bags, never did. The reward is in the organisation itself. The more organized you are, the more people you kill = more rp for all, more medals for all. Bags are just icing on the top (more often it's not really the case though, like aura pointed out).

I completely agree that the game is about the realms and massive battles across maps. That's why I also think guilds play a big role in realm identity (or at least they should). When you see the bitterstone, you instantly know who they are and what they fight for. Ofc, not all guilds are, or should be racial, but being in a guild only increases your sense of realm identity imo. You can have banners and guild colours so your enemies instantly recognize you (which was also a part of warfare throughout centuries, and more or less still is).

All that guild stuff is fine and dandy, but my question is why those guilds should even play the game? Fun is definitely one of the reasons, and it's why I (and obv many others) play the game. But over time this just gets lost. When you grinded out every zone, killed every opponent, the shallow rvr system becomes boring.

Hargrim asked me if guilds would be holding bos if they gave some buffs. Why would they have to? People already stand on bos (I honestly have no idea why) for whatever reason. The system is 'stand on bo, increase keep rank, go to siege'. And that's it. The ENTIRE system. I just don't see any depth in it, just my opinion. We roam the lake, spot a bo that's burning, go there, kill stuff, move on. The bo itself gives us nothing, zero. It's the players we killed. And when we move on there's always someone who will stay behind. And if those bos gave buffs now, I think people would be even more incentivised to stand on them. If they already stand on them while they give you almost nothing, surely they would guard them if they gave buffs? Or am I wrong?

And at that point the guilds come in. People will have to organize in some way if they want those buffs, for at least as long as they can have them. You will actually have to protect bos if you don't want the other realm to gain boosts. You are roaming the lake and one of your bos gets attacked? Better go there and help you allies. This could also help those stupidly designed zones like eataine, where the entire zones just turns into a giant ping pong table. You want to have a slight edge over the enemy? Move your ass and cap bos. Then defend them.

Maybe this is a completely bogus idea that would never work, but it's all I have to offer to this discussion (I didn't even think about it super hard). Pugging, 'muh 6man', 'muh guild wb' has no meaning if the system is plain boring. None of those arguements are worth anything. I think that if the system changes in some way where every one of these groups of players benefited from it and actually played towards objectives of the system itself (where they would get rewarded in that process), no one would be complaining (or at least complaining would be minimal).

Bonus exp or a buff?

Maybe a stat buff that increases via number of BO's held?

[flintboth]

Warhammer battlefield is all about strategy, Battle Objectives control give you the advantage and the victory, this is not "nothing".

It's all I need, it's all I ask.
Gear, medaillon is not why I m here.

[ragafury]

You did it? It work like that?

I haven't tried the multiple char method described here.

but I've gotta a gold bag on my chosen for goofin around 15 minutes in Praag and than loggin out because already tired of the gameplay there.
Hello, conq shoulders.

Next Zone almost the same story.
15 minutes play time. Hello Genesis piece.

next two zones, obviously with consumed lootbonus I roamed in a guild 4 man guarding both times top 3 DPS of the zone on my level 39 chosen. double white, not even green.
this was the chosens 6th zone in total.


BG almost same story.
about 30 minutes gametime.
slap a placed ram at destros keep.
died 10 times in the progress, luckily get 3 killingblows by spammig CD.
Have again, some conq shoulders kind sir.

I've also locked countless zones in a premade warband were you had to catch hold in the zone vs 2+ premade warbands.
that efforts are usually rewarded with a white bag. same goes for our "casual" roaming grps who are also mildly sucessive.

Idk what to say else. If everybody approves of this kind of rewards. than so be it.
But I don't have to agree with it as a good reward design when a simple influ reward than takes 50k influence and is outmatched by purple bag and requires multiple hours of grind.
or a gunbad run which grants nowhere same level loot takes multiple hours.

It's also no secret. check official RoR discord. ppl including me had a very similar discussion.
My last words on this thread.

[Hargrim]

@ragafury
Im sure you know how the system work and why the situation you described was perfectly normal. And why 'grand strategy' of logging 6 characters will not work, based on your example.

Also, you didn't mention the AAO you probably had when you won your bags.

Good that this discussion is finished.

[Hargrim]

I wish it did

Why?

[Collateral]

Warhammer battlefield is all about strategy, Battle Objectives control give you the advantage and the victory, this is not "nothing".

It's all I need, it's all I ask.
Gear, medaillon is not why I m here.

Idk if you read my post, but strategy is exactly what the system lacks. There is no strategy. Bos give you virtually nothing. Sure they give you the ability to spawn a ram. But that's pretty much the extent of it. Go to bo, cap it. If you lose it, go back and cap again. If you can't, go to keep and wait for attack. Rinse, repeat. How is that deep strategy? For all it's worth, at the start of the zone an entire realm can just go to their keep and wait for a ram to knock on the doors. This happened many times already.

You don't have to play for gear, I never said that.

The problem with my idea is that once the keep attack starts and one realm outnumbers the other, the one with more people will only become even stronger, cuz they can hold bos. One way to alleviate this could be that if you attack the doors, you no longer gain buffs from bos (?). Or the strenght of the buffs can depend on aao (?).

They could be any kind of buffs the devs can imagine. Xp, rp, stats, skills, whatever.

[Hargrim]

Spoiler:

All I have find to play in Guild or 6 mans is just kill and forget Objectives.

I like all style of play for a War game because this is more realistik but I don't like to focus on kill only and avoid the Obectives because this make us predictable and weak.

Many of premade and some guild play just look like "skinners" of battlefield or pillagers mercenaries from the middle age.

I m not against their style play as I say, because this is realistic in all wars to have some pillagers and killers, for the stress and rage, but their style play is not the reality of a War conflict game, and more a Warhammer conflict, who are all about the Realms.

You just preach for the guildpride here not for the inteligence of the War game.

It's because playing the objectives gives you NOTHING. How can't people understand this? Why should our wb stand on a bo and defend it and get a couple rr ticks, while we can roam around hunting other wbs, where rr gain is exponentially higher? I personally don't care about bags, never did. The reward is in the organisation itself. The more organized you are, the more people you kill = more rp for all, more medals for all. Bags are just icing on the top (more often it's not really the case though, like aura pointed out).

I completely agree that the game is about the realms and massive battles across maps. That's why I also think guilds play a big role in realm identity (or at least they should). When you see the bitterstone, you instantly know who they are and what they fight for. Ofc, not all guilds are, or should be racial, but being in a guild only increases your sense of realm identity imo. You can have banners and guild colours so your enemies instantly recognize you (which was also a part of warfare throughout centuries, and more or less still is).

All that guild stuff is fine and dandy, but my question is why those guilds should even play the game? Fun is definitely one of the reasons, and it's why I (and obv many others) play the game. But over time this just gets lost. When you grinded out every zone, killed every opponent, the shallow rvr system becomes boring.

Hargrim asked me if guilds would be holding bos if they gave some buffs. Why would they have to? People already stand on bos (I honestly have no idea why) for whatever reason. The system is 'stand on bo, increase keep rank, go to siege'. And that's it. The ENTIRE system. I just don't see any depth in it, just my opinion. We roam the lake, spot a bo that's burning, go there, kill stuff, move on. The bo itself gives us nothing, zero. It's the players we killed. And when we move on there's always someone who will stay behind. And if those bos gave buffs now, I think people would be even more incentivised to stand on them. If they already stand on them while they give you almost nothing, surely they would guard them if they gave buffs? Or am I wrong?

And at that point the guilds come in. People will have to organize in some way if they want those buffs, for at least as long as they can have them. You will actually have to protect bos if you don't want the other realm to gain boosts. You are roaming the lake and one of your bos gets attacked? Better go there and help you allies. This could also help those stupidly designed zones like eataine, where the entire zones just turns into a giant ping pong table. You want to have a slight edge over the enemy? Move your ass and cap bos. Then defend them.

Maybe this is a completely bogus idea that would never work, but it's all I have to offer to this discussion (I didn't even think about it super hard). Pugging, 'muh 6man', 'muh guild wb' has no meaning if the system is plain boring. None of those arguements are worth anything. I think that if the system changes in some way where every one of these groups of players benefited from it and actually played towards objectives of the system itself (where they would get rewarded in that process), no one would be complaining (or at least complaining would be minimal).

But you are aware that BOs give you renown tick when you fight around them? And you are aware that they are designed in such a way to always tell you where the action can be found?

But please, give some ideas how to add meaning to BOs. The first idea you gave give you nothing as a guild or 6man - you just benefit from the pug holding BO.

[Fallenkezef]

I wish it did

Why?

Dont mind me, being sarcastic.

Tired of all these "noobs and puggers get everything for doing " arguments, that are complete bs.

[Collateral]

Spoiler:

All I have find to play in Guild or 6 mans is just kill and forget Objectives.

I like all style of play for a War game because this is more realistik but I don't like to focus on kill only and avoid the Obectives because this make us predictable and weak.

Many of premade and some guild play just look like "skinners" of battlefield or pillagers mercenaries from the middle age.

I m not against their style play as I say, because this is realistic in all wars to have some pillagers and killers, for the stress and rage, but their style play is not the reality of a War conflict game, and more a Warhammer conflict, who are all about the Realms.

You just preach for the guildpride here not for the inteligence of the War game.

It's because playing the objectives gives you NOTHING. How can't people understand this? Why should our wb stand on a bo and defend it and get a couple rr ticks, while we can roam around hunting other wbs, where rr gain is exponentially higher? I personally don't care about bags, never did. The reward is in the organisation itself. The more organized you are, the more people you kill = more rp for all, more medals for all. Bags are just icing on the top (more often it's not really the case though, like aura pointed out).

I completely agree that the game is about the realms and massive battles across maps. That's why I also think guilds play a big role in realm identity (or at least they should). When you see the bitterstone, you instantly know who they are and what they fight for. Ofc, not all guilds are, or should be racial, but being in a guild only increases your sense of realm identity imo. You can have banners and guild colours so your enemies instantly recognize you (which was also a part of warfare throughout centuries, and more or less still is).

All that guild stuff is fine and dandy, but my question is why those guilds should even play the game? Fun is definitely one of the reasons, and it's why I (and obv many others) play the game. But over time this just gets lost. When you grinded out every zone, killed every opponent, the shallow rvr system becomes boring.

Hargrim asked me if guilds would be holding bos if they gave some buffs. Why would they have to? People already stand on bos (I honestly have no idea why) for whatever reason. The system is 'stand on bo, increase keep rank, go to siege'. And that's it. The ENTIRE system. I just don't see any depth in it, just my opinion. We roam the lake, spot a bo that's burning, go there, kill stuff, move on. The bo itself gives us nothing, zero. It's the players we killed. And when we move on there's always someone who will stay behind. And if those bos gave buffs now, I think people would be even more incentivised to stand on them. If they already stand on them while they give you almost nothing, surely they would guard them if they gave buffs? Or am I wrong?

And at that point the guilds come in. People will have to organize in some way if they want those buffs, for at least as long as they can have them. You will actually have to protect bos if you don't want the other realm to gain boosts. You are roaming the lake and one of your bos gets attacked? Better go there and help you allies. This could also help those stupidly designed zones like eataine, where the entire zones just turns into a giant ping pong table. You want to have a slight edge over the enemy? Move your ass and cap bos. Then defend them.

Maybe this is a completely bogus idea that would never work, but it's all I have to offer to this discussion (I didn't even think about it super hard). Pugging, 'muh 6man', 'muh guild wb' has no meaning if the system is plain boring. None of those arguements are worth anything. I think that if the system changes in some way where every one of these groups of players benefited from it and actually played towards objectives of the system itself (where they would get rewarded in that process), no one would be complaining (or at least complaining would be minimal).

But you are aware that BOs give you renown tick when you fight around them? And you are aware that they are designed in such a way to always tell you where the action can be found?

But please, give some ideas how to add meaning to BOs. The first idea you gave give you nothing as a guild or 6man - you just benefit from the pug holding BO.

No need to get passive aggressive. I said I didn't think about all possible iterations of that kind of system, or the flaws it might have.

Yes the pugs will be holding bos, like they already do (and they themselves would get buffs as well don't forget about that). But guilds would be fighting for them. There is information that an enemy wb is moving to your bo? Try and get there before them, or intercept them, maybe ambush them even. Extra renown ticks I never even noticed honestly. I don't know how much more they give you, you never told us any formulas. So I can't possibly know how much more renown fighting on bos gives you. Personally we never went "oh man fighting on bos gives us so much renown, better stand here and wait for the zerg to arrive".

Let me ask you this. What if all wbs in the zone were standing on bos? Cuz that's what they should be doing no, if fighting gives you more renown? Who would then fight for bos? If we stand in the north, and enemy stands in the south, who will move first? Then why are wbs not standing permanently on bos? Cuz it's damn boring, and the risk is simply too great. As I said, an entire zerg might be coming your way, and no matter how much more rp/xp you got, it wouldn't matter cuz you would get crushed. And that's why we don't stand on bos. Boring, risky and unrewarding.