Regen stuff need a nerf

[normanis]

The group buffs aren't disimilar enough to warrant that big of an edge. Back when knight actually had better buffs in both 2h and SnB this was plenty made up for by chosen having the parry buff(s) and just in general better damage already. They lost one of the coolest things they had, Crippling Strikes at one point, but that still doesn't justify the slew of stuff they gained while knight didn't really benefit at all in ways of fun stuff. Chosen specifically was buffed in all areas while retaining 99% of their existing kit. Knight was nerfed accross the board and got nothing for it, not even buffs to make them solo monsters like chosen in some misguided attempt at letting them DPS in groups. (99% sure someone simply wanted to rekk plebs solo as opposed to that being the case, but both are equally ridiculous explanations for the mistakes.)

And regardless of solo not being a primary balancing point, it most certainly needs to be a balancing point to some degree. Buffing things to the point where they are entirely obnoxious even without a group never went well. Way too many people pug/solo in various forms to let clear outliers just stomp everything. Overbuffing something is simply bad deisgn and ruinous to the health of the game even if it doesn't tip the scales in group play to a broken degree.

Live Kotbs was way ahead of chosen, there are reasons Kotbs got more nerfs since then.
Crit buffs for party and stackable 15% healing for party is better than anything chosen offers for group. You pay a price for being less independent and "solo-friendly" but like I said, it was never designed like that.
Some classes just happen to be flexible enough to use them solo with greater success than others.

No one in ROR received more nerfs than Kotbs, at the same time Chosen received the most buffs for solo play. chosen OP because of stupid tactics 15% chance of crit damage + spirit chanel (one of the most powerful tactics in the game, even just 15% crit is very strong, and here are 2 of the strongest effects in one) remove the spiritual channel, and this class will completely cease to exist OP, even despite the second OP tactic demonclaw, which was originally an exclusive tactic for Kotbs, but after the nerf it became useless, and chosen got its better alternative

live chosen ravage spamer with 1k crit
or any jackalinhat video (y he wear top gear byt also ror gear is very good maby in some aspects even better, mix between pve and rvr)

[Bozzax]

Gilgam killed fishstick 3 times solo and died 1 time most WLs seem to kill him more the they die and Bregon for example has a perfect record

Ofc he has 1.3k solo kills but those aren’t really what we are talking about here

So is this it the monster op Shaman?

[jafh123]

Gilgam killed fishstick 3 times solo and died 1 time most WLs seem to kill him more the they die and Bregon for example has a perfect record

Ofc he has 1.3k solo kills but those aren’t really what we are talking about here

So is this it the monster op Shaman?

Fishstick hasn't killed me solo. Shaman isn't op.

[what63]

Gilgam killed fishstick 3 times solo and died 1 time most WLs seem to kill him more the they die and Bregon for example has a perfect record

Ofc he has 1.3k solo kills but those aren’t really what we are talking about here

So is this it the monster op Shaman?

Solo kills are indeed irrelevant, to a large degree. Smallscale/smallscale pugging is so much more than 1v1 duelling... 1v1 is a factor, where they are especially nasty against a vast majority of non-duelling setups, but this is only a small part of what makes them too frustrating on the whole.

That being said, shaman indeed aren't unduellable. The real nasty however is just how well rounded they are in arbitrary RvR situations on the smaller scale of things. Even stuff like how well they can deal damage relative to how well they can heal any random ally in a situation matters, for example. But more importantly, how well they can heal themselves/how hard they are to get rid of relative to throughput as a result of overall kit, looking at 1v1 and up. How the game feels when there are more shammies added to the same scenario also matters.

On the whole, most of the issues lie in mechanic tweak+cast on the move heal changes. Gork'll Fix It and Healing Energy being castable on the move should be tied to tactics, at the very least, both classes simply get too much juice out of these with the mechanic change on top when looking at the DPS side. Mobile healing is already way good with the boosted HoT(s).

The game isn't strictly segmented into 1v1, 6v6, 24v24, zerg v zerg. And it shouldn't be fun strictly in those configurations.

[Bozzax]

Destroy Confidence or an IB that isn't unable to use right buttons good ones will make your life hell as shaman
Ps. I give you that M1 + lazer is a fun KB steal game
Ds. Ofc in legolas meta a shaman is needed

[Stimpz]

The group buffs aren't disimilar enough to warrant that big of an edge. Back when knight actually had better buffs in both 2h and SnB this was plenty made up for by chosen having the parry buff(s) and just in general better damage already. They lost one of the coolest things they had, Crippling Strikes at one point, but that still doesn't justify the slew of stuff they gained while knight didn't really benefit at all in ways of fun stuff. Chosen specifically was buffed in all areas while retaining 99% of their existing kit. Knight was nerfed accross the board and got nothing for it, not even buffs to make them solo monsters like chosen in some misguided attempt at letting them DPS in groups. (99% sure someone simply wanted to rekk plebs solo as opposed to that being the case, but both are equally ridiculous explanations for the mistakes.)

And regardless of solo not being a primary balancing point, it most certainly needs to be a balancing point to some degree. Buffing things to the point where they are entirely obnoxious even without a group never went well. Way too many people pug/solo in various forms to let clear outliers just stomp everything. Overbuffing something is simply bad deisgn and ruinous to the health of the game even if it doesn't tip the scales in group play to a broken degree.

Live Kotbs was way ahead of chosen, there are reasons Kotbs got more nerfs since then.
Crit buffs for party and stackable 15% healing for party is better than anything chosen offers for group. You pay a price for being less independent and "solo-friendly" but like I said, it was never designed like that.
Some classes just happen to be flexible enough to use them solo with greater success than others.

No one in ROR received more nerfs than Kotbs, at the same time Chosen received the most buffs for solo play. chosen OP because of stupid tactics 15% chance of crit damage + spirit chanel (one of the most powerful tactics in the game, even just 15% crit is very strong, and here are 2 of the strongest effects in one) remove the spiritual channel, and this class will completely cease to exist OP, even despite the second OP tactic demonclaw, which was originally an exclusive tactic for Kotbs, but after the nerf it became useless, and chosen got its better alternative

Chosen got a massive nerf a few years ago.
They had a tactic that converted ALL dmg to spirit dmg, and also Opression (-15% received dmg + armor buff) was usable with 2H.

So it's not true that Chosen got buffs every time. That Kotbs shine in other areas (like tanking and buffing in RVR, which is arguably the most important job) is another story. Not that Chosen is bad for SnB RvR, but Kotbs do the job a little bit better. That Chosens can buff their parry is an argument often used, but it seems that people forget that Chosen is the only tank without a block buff.

And yes, Chosen scales wonderfully with regen-items. Things like that make the game interesting. I wouldn't promote to nerf every inch outside of the meta or else you end up with a dry and boring shade of a pvp game.

[reynor007]

Live Kotbs was way ahead of chosen, there are reasons Kotbs got more nerfs since then.
Crit buffs for party and stackable 15% healing for party is better than anything chosen offers for group. You pay a price for being less independent and "solo-friendly" but like I said, it was never designed like that.
Some classes just happen to be flexible enough to use them solo with greater success than others.

No one in ROR received more nerfs than Kotbs, at the same time Chosen received the most buffs for solo play. chosen OP because of stupid tactics 15% chance of crit damage + spirit chanel (one of the most powerful tactics in the game, even just 15% crit is very strong, and here are 2 of the strongest effects in one) remove the spiritual channel, and this class will completely cease to exist OP, even despite the second OP tactic demonclaw, which was originally an exclusive tactic for Kotbs, but after the nerf it became useless, and chosen got its better alternative

Chosen got a massive nerf a few years ago.
They had a tactic that converted ALL dmg to spirit dmg, and also Opression (-15% received dmg + armor buff) was usable with 2H.

So it's not true that Chosen got buffs every time. That Kotbs shine in other areas (like tanking and buffing in RVR, which is arguably the most important job) is another story. Not that Chosen is bad for SnB RvR, but Kotbs do the job a little bit better. That Chosens can buff their parry is an argument often used, but it seems that people forget that Chosen is the only tank without a block buff.

And yes, Chosen scales wonderfully with regen-items. Things like that make the game interesting. I wouldn't promote to nerf every inch outside of the meta or else you end up with a dry and boring shade of a pvp game.

hahahaha that's funny to hear let's compare chosen tactic for the entire spirit dmg was added to ror and it was a failure chosen all spirit dmg and -20% incoming heal kotbs all elem dma and +15% incoming dmg is the worst tactic in the entire history of the game, it is 2 times worse than directed aggression, which is not used by any tank
chosen received a double tactic, which previously consisted of two tactics and was again added to ror spirit chanel and 15% crit chance kotbs lost elemental damage tactics 3 branches chosen lost buff -15% damage, kotbs lost buff -50% damage
chosen got new tactics demonclaw 160 str and tough kotbs got a nerf to the rune fang, from 240str,ws,in 160ws,in which is just ridiculous, practically unplayable crap
Kotbs received a nerf to the tactics for the critical damage aura, on the Aoe skill, once every 10 seconds, which again makes this tactic unplayable for solo kotbs received a nerf to reflect damage, from elemental damage to physical damage (coupled with the runefang nerf) again makes the aura unplayable, reflect 60-130 damage every 2 sec, this is just ridiculous
kotbs received a nerf M2, instead of 30 seconds, lasts 15
kotbs received a nerf to remove enchantments, applied at 65ft, now 5
chosen received Tzeentch's Reflection boost 1100 mage damage absorption, 25% disruption, 120in
the only worthwhile thing that chosen lost is cripling strike, -25% damage on which crit damage was dealt, but the buffs he learned in return are much more powerful than what he lost kotbs is just an aurabot, this is the most useless and uninteresting tank in the game, which has lost its uniqueness and meaning of existence in principle

[salazarn]

Ye def chosen and welf are op with regen. But then are shaman running around with passive toughness/ movespeed / detaunt kiting like 3 people.

The game is just a mess and will be until they revert a lot of the nerfs other classes got and bring back the lower gcd that an earlier iteration of the game had. Then defensive crap like this wont be so obnoxious.

[Farrul]

double.

[Farrul]

Gilgam killed fishstick 3 times solo and died 1 time most WLs seem to kill him more the they die and Bregon for example has a perfect record

Ofc he has 1.3k solo kills but those aren’t really what we are talking about here

So is this it the monster op Shaman?

You and few other posters here have the wrong understandings of what is being referred to as OP with the shaman class(when it comes to solo or small scale).

Since you mention WL, on my WL when i was active i did not lose to a shaman in a pure 1vs1 for as long as i can remember, however Shamans makes themselves OP by their sheer capability to dominate tactically on the small scale battlefield. This why any small scale scene with or without shamans makes a huge difference, no other destruction class can match this.

Hence why they are so popular and numerous on the server, not because players prefer Goblin aesthetics or because they are gods at killing 1vs1 vs prepared duel targets ( SnB IB as duel reference is irrelevant).

They deal damage very effectively(magic) and effortlessly, just like their AM counterparts, from long range whilst the shaman heals himself up. They are masters at trolling players, add the M1 which is complete broken as means to gain easy support kills on targets that can't afford to stop. Shaman is a very strong kiter and a master at escaping, a good hybrid one will not be killd easily despite being pulled in by a WL, jumped by a WH etc, they have tools to escape in ways no other similar class has.

Overall this class has too much tactical advantage and presence on the battlefield, in too many numerous small scale situations to not call it OP, mind you this does not reflect in their pure 1vs1 kill statistics at all, hence its pointless to use it as point of reference.

Solo kills are indeed irrelevant, to a large degree. Smallscale/smallscale pugging is so much more than 1v1 duelling... 1v1 is a factor, where they are especially nasty against a vast majority of non-duelling setups, but this is only a small part of what makes them too frustrating on the whole.

That being said, shaman indeed aren't unduellable. The real nasty however is just how well rounded they are in arbitrary RvR situations on the smaller scale of things. Even stuff like how well they can deal damage relative to how well they can heal any random ally in a situation matters, for example. But more importantly, how well they can heal themselves/how hard they are to get rid of relative to throughput as a result of overall kit, looking at 1v1 and up. How the game feels when there are more shammies added to the same scenario also matters.

Yes indeed, this is the truth about shamans, you beat me to it.