[Shadow Warrior] Assault Tree redeemer?

[Deadpoet]

Everyone knows that Assault is the least SW used tree. Some very interesting posts have appeared recently and the gist of the discussion is that Assault is a tree that the devs in the original game forgot to buff when the other two trees were buffed, and that right now it is underperforming. Sweeping Slash is perhaps the least used and usable ability in this melee tree. In fract, this is one of the most useless abilities in the game. Frontal cone 25 ft AoE mediocre damage on a 10 sec cd. ......

The idea is to make assault SWs more meaningful to a party. One step to achieve this and to make this worthless (pve?) ability worth spending a point on would be to add an effect that helps the party. Something that other classes can't offer.

How about Sweeping Slash adds an AoE armor debuff? or a wounds debuff? or a incoming heal debuff? or, more in line with the High Elves perks, a reduced % chance to defend attacks?

I can only hope someone with more weight in these forums takes over and backs this approachto the problem of melee SW.

[Deadpoet]

Obviously when I write "something that other classes can't offer" I am aware that some of my suggested effects for Sweeping Slash can be currently supplied by other classes. The AoE ability to debuff enemies chance to defend is a conquest Kotbs ability for example, so maybe that one wouldn't be so useful after all. But some of the suggested debuffs are harder to provide by your typical mdps in a party, at least with the AoE component. An AoE inc heal debuff is available to Runepriests, but no support Runies in a group would spec that. AoE armor debuff? maybe other classes have it, but right now I can only think of a tactic in the zealot AoE tree. I think slayers can debuff wounds, but ST I believe, correct me if I'm wrong.

The idea is to turn a useless ability into something worth going up assault tree to get. And that would be only a first step towards making Assault based builds useful to a party. A lot more would need rework too.

[Foxbeep]

I wouldn't expect much change until T4 has been out long enough for the 40/80s to really playtest oddball specs; I intend to revisit Assault then as well.

I had been theorycrafting some way of redeeming Assault as well and I hadn't really thought about messing with sweeping slash other than replacing it with an entirely new ability.

Most of the problem with Sweeping Slash is that it goes against the core playstyle of Assault tree, which is to backload DoTs and Debuffs and then go in for a burst finisher popping M2 and VoN.

No other melee ability SWs use is AoE so there's no real reason for him to have one random single swipe

I was playing with the idea of changing it into some kind of "DoT Detonator" that dealt a flat amount of damage and then an additional large amount of damage per ailment on the target, up to a limit of 4 most likely, which is a number any enterprising SW can achieve, or even easier with group help.

This kind of ability would be directly in line with Assault's playstyle and bring group synchronization as well.

I've messed with other ideas as well most of which concern tactics changing Grim Slash to spirit damage or something. This would reduce Assault Sw's M.A.D. (Needing to somehow get enough strength to overcome the other MDPS' parry at str cap and still needing weapon skill for own parry/armor pen while having mostly BS on gear)

I really tried on my SW to hit Str cap and the closest I could get without having the best talis in the game, which I can't currently afford, was something like 715. I also believe that draw blood and broadhead arrow need to be made into corp or spirit damage even though it's not particularly lore friendly, they being purely physical attacks.

[Foxbeep]

I hate to be this guy but I'm bumping the thread for EU prime time to see it and discuss.

[Thorondir]

For context, the "SW buffs" were part of a wider physical range dps buff patch that saw SW, SH and Eng get + Str/Bal/WS tactics among other things. The changes focused exclusively on the ranged aspect of these classes.

Regarding sweeping slash - I was able to find one use of it on live. The ability only fired when you had a target within range. You could fire it off when there was a WE in stealth and it would record in your combat log as "Sweeping slash hits Somthing for X damage". But unless you like to walk around mashing your sweeping slash key to find WE's in stealth, it is basically useless. Barrage does everything better (not to mention the best spamable aoe ability in the game - lileath's arrow).

The tree needs a complete redesign. It has always needed a complete redesign. As is, there is nothing that scout/skirm doesn't do better and from range. Nothing.

I think that there is little hope in doing anything for the tree until T4 is released. The SW really comes into it own when you have enough points to split between two trees. At 32, you basically have the choice of bringing ranged debuffs and cc with a side of burst or full burst/direct damage with no cc. T4 you get both.

I would say that comparatively, T4 assault is weaker than T3 assault, when you look at the other options in T4 vs T3. It only gets worse.

[Foxbeep]

For context, the "SW buffs" were part of a wider physical range dps buff patch that saw SW, SH and Eng get + Str/Bal/WS tactics among other things. The changes focused exclusively on the ranged aspect of these classes.

Regarding sweeping slash - I was able to find one use of it on live. The ability only fired when you had a target within range. You could fire it off when there was a WE in stealth and it would record in your combat log as "Sweeping slash hits Somthing for X damage". But unless you like to walk around mashing your sweeping slash key to find WE's in stealth, it is basically useless. Barrage does everything better (not to mention the best spamable aoe ability in the game - lileath's arrow).

The tree needs a complete redesign. It has always needed a complete redesign. As is, there is nothing that scout/skirm doesn't do better and from range. Nothing.

I think that there is little hope in doing anything for the tree until T4 is released. The SW really comes into it own when you have enough points to split between two trees. At 32, you basically have the choice of bringing ranged debuffs and cc with a side of burst or full burst/direct damage with no cc. T4 you get both.

I would say that comparatively, T4 assault is weaker than T3 assault, when you look at the other options in T4 vs T3. It only gets worse.

That's exactly why we have conversations like this, we need to keep it "In the public eye" so that people even have the opportunity to notice there's a problem.

I know that there were one or two really really really good Assault SWs on my server before I quit back in 2012 but I can't remember their names (I don't even remember what server I played on.) and even though they were very skilled and very good at their class they didn't do nearly as much damage/KBs as any other 40/80 scout or skirmish, they only played assault because it would surprise MDPS who got too close to their healers and they were sick of playing the same other two specs.

[Foxbeep]

Just a healthy bump, I'll keep them to a minimum but I'd like to see this topic discussed in more detail

[Llanair]

As someone who has always mained an Assault spec SW, i can agree with a fair amount of stuff said here. Though I would perhaps not go so far as to say the tree needs a 'total' re-do. Some things on that tree are very useful, even crucial, such as Sinister Assault and the Knockdown. The AoE DOES need an upgrade however and the rapid strikes...that thing is useless, in the time i spend on that power i could do twice as much damage with grim slash and brutal assault. Heck, my DoTs probably do more.

Now one thing they do need, is dual wield. For as long as that one trailer has been around, there have been Shadow Warrior lovers desperately crying out for it and i think it is key in bringing them up to snuff, a lot of Assault's powers are based in melee or just very short range, but only going in with a single, one hander puts you at a distinct disadvantage vs other MDPS most of which will have two weapons, or a 2hander, meaning you end up playing more like a Skirmish spec if you aren't careful about how you pick your fights, or in zerg vs zerg fights where there are less opportunities for precision strikes.

[greenstoned]

As someone who has always mained an Assault spec SW, i can agree with a fair amount of stuff said here. Though I would perhaps not go so far as to say the tree needs a 'total' re-do. Some things on that tree are very useful, even crucial, such as Sinister Assault and the Knockdown. The AoE DOES need an upgrade however and the rapid strikes...that thing is useless, in the time i spend on that power i could do twice as much damage with grim slash and brutal assault. Heck, my DoTs probably do more.

Now one thing they do need, is dual wield. For as long as that one trailer has been around, there have been Shadow Warrior lovers desperately crying out for it and i think it is key in bringing them up to snuff, a lot of Assault's powers are based in melee or just very short range, but only going in with a single, one hander puts you at a distinct disadvantage vs other MDPS most of which will have two weapons, or a 2hander, meaning you end up playing more like a Skirmish spec if you aren't careful about how you pick your fights, or in zerg vs zerg fights where there are less opportunities for precision strikes.

dual wield would mean a 3rd weapon, with most likely a 3rd tali slot and maket it unbalanced for other classes

[roadkillrobin]

An extra talisman slot isn't gamebreaking, there's cloaks with 3 talisslots on them were moast cloaks doesn't even have one. they still weren't used.
But Dual Wield for SW and GW spear for Squig Armor Herder sounds like a nice change