Please, do not kill MDD DoK.

[Arena]

I would like to talk about that in a game I care most of all — MDD DoK. This class is what keeps me in the game and makes me come back again and again.

But before I begin I would like to thank developers for all their efforts on the return of this great game, I am infinitely grateful to you and I am glad that you find the strength to continue to work on this project.
I support the project than I can, I translate news for the Russian community, try to spread different useful information on the Russian site, make reports of bugs on Bugtracker. I hope it helps at least a little.

I love that game, that is why I am writing this, I, like you, want to Warhammer Online has not only lived but also getting better.

I also would like to note at once that everything I have written below is just an opinion, an opinion about MDD DoK and MDD ONLY (about healer dok part please don't even think when you read this). In addition, I am specific person. I say all straight as I think, so my words may seem harsh, even insulting. I assure you - if I say something bad, it means that in general everything is good and I'm just pointing out some of the shortcomings that impede the total perfection.

And now to the theme topic.
Please don't kill MDD DoKs.

I played as mdd dok for 3 years on life and then I play it from the time when he was generally playable on RoR. The best thing in this game is its versatility. Dock itself is weak in general, it is very poorly protected, has almost no control, and that one he have is very bad, he not have useful buffs/debuffs, damage is lower than mdd tanks have, healing points from damage dealt is lower than healing points from specialized healers. But it's fun to play when you look at the details, of which there were many to live.
One of the strongest quality of mdd dok is possession of weapon pair. On live it worked this way: dok could take in the right hand weapon with good DPS, and in the left hand weapon with good proc, which is decreasing major DPS but give proc to balance.

Right now mdd dok have a choice of one and one only sword (for scenario emblems). And that's very bad, because to pick up your equipment is always interesting, adjusting your character by yourself instead of just putting the blockheads pattern. And the presence of only one single sword without alternatives bearable only by taking into account future changes, adding new gear, weapons, accessories and so on.
What we have now is pretty bad even for now:
Intentionally the weapon with proc of decreasing armor and another one of slowing target by hit was taken from doks. I would understand if those procs was not implemented on the server. But they does, it was given for some other classes. It means that from doks was intentionally tooked his virtues and they wasn't be replaced.
Oh, part of me. One of GMs say in chat that doks receive weapons with fast AA speed.
And that is the point – mdd doks dont need AA speed, whether it 2.0 or 3.0 DoK will not notice the difference. That is because DoK mechanic don't work that way at all. And, let's be honest, anyone who thinks otherwise does not understand the mechanics of MDD DoK.

You may play mdd dok in 2-2-2 party as a damager and think: hey, doks have low dps, they need AA speed raised. As person who played dok for 3 years – no, it is not how it work.

I'm explain basics. Mdd dok never worked as a full dd in party, his whole essence is to heal party members by abilities making damage and only by abilities. In all other combinations dok loses any character. So auto attack does not matter, and literally useless. (i'm not talking about last bonus of Sovereign set, we talk about it when it will be done)

WP have their bonus of detaunt while using twohanded hammer. Doks have ability to take sword with proc in left hand. That is ballans.
Except doks cant take something special in left hand because there is nothing usefull. And i'm very sorry to say it, developers who made those weapons and epic quests – great work, no jokes. I not blame you, you do your best. Problem is you not understand how mdd dok work and that why all weapon from those quests is useless for us. They not awfull, they just pale in comparison with other classes and have nothing to makes you choose them over scenario weapon.
And I totally don't understand why you take from doks that is belong to them? DoKs already weak enough to suffer from more losses.

Also from the response of GM in the chat in the game, I realized that the dock is not going to return the proc by 5% chance to slow down target in future, which is also a direct harm to that, almost without their own slow down ability class. The reason of that decision was sounded: they have their own slowdown ability. This statement is in my opinion very doubtful, as the dock firstly could slow down the enemy by direct ability only after the injury was be layed on target, and secondly ability functions for 5 seconds and it's cooldown is 10 seconds. That is only half of the time the enemy can be slowed down, it makes the dock is very vulnerable against anyone who does have slowing down abilities with lesser cooldown time (which is 90% of the characters). On live doks were have choise of swords with 5% proc of slowing down targets, and that choice contained grand total of two options. Instead of expansion of that amount on RoR developers eventually decided to decreacind that number to zero.
And don't tell me about covenant with slowing down target chance, WE can slow down target by throwing dagger with 100% chance and still have weapon with slowing down proc.

Well okay, I am reasonable man. You take away all procs of slowing down target and decreacing armor. Fine, what did we back in return?
Nothing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_PMab-SGgY

This is the cause of my feelings about the fate of class.
In the future, when there will be swords for 75rr from scenarios, weapons for quests will not be necessary, since even with procs it will yield to the characteristics of the scenario's weapons. Now quest's weapons is worn more than ever, but the dok sucks with a selection of weapons. Why deliberately destroy mdd doks, what are we guilty for?

Correcting deficiencies of game is good, but for saving balance you should give after you took. Especially when you took something already existing belongs to character. Classes mechanics worked perfectly in the past, on live no one complained that the dock have too much slowing down procs.

So mdd doks has no useful bonuses weaken the enemy, and we can not say that this bonus has been removed due to its imbalance, because others have it. Any other classes have really great bonuses, and doks aren't. MDD DoK is weak character, it's hard to play, and having self heal does not mean that he is OP, IB have selfheal too, with a lots of debuffs and same damage as dok have, so they don't receive good procs? I dont think so.

Little word about accessories. I simply can not understand why the developers applied so much effort to repair accessories from ToK unlocks and then make theyre set bonuses extremely inefficient, despite the fact the characteristics of the original items remain at a low level. Why was it necessary to remove the decreasing of target's resistances proc? These were the accessories that despite the low specifications made sense to wear in the RvR. Now none of the submitted accessories not needed nowhere other than in PvE dungeons, and some are not needed even there, and they represent now only a nostalgic and collection value. In general, the elimination of these bonuses has the same effect on such classes as mdd dok, limiting it.

A series of that choices that restricting mdd dok natural expansion bring it to oblivion as a playable class.
Do not force players intentionally limit the choice of ways to character development.
Solutions such as cut mdd dok's utility procs and deprive him of his choice of equipment will lead to his death.
While trying to do something new, please do not break all the old that we all love and appreciate.
Please, do not kill MDD DoK.

[bichka]

>he not have useful buffs/debuffs,
healdebuf on crit, is it still exists?
it was like a permahealdebuf on live. add here snare covenant, medium armor, aoe detaunt and selfhealing.
only problem with dps doks - they are wasting healer's slot in sc.

[Arena]

they are wasting healer's slot in sc.

oppinion of another mdd dok hater who newer really played mdd dok by himself and don't know any of it's advantages and disadvantages.
If you don't know how things inside, please do not make lengthy comments on the matter, especially when arguing with a man playing the dok for more than 3 years.

[Daknallbomb]

sry but -.- Blubb -.- hes right if he says in sc its a wasted slot cause it jsut gives better chars there

[szejoza]

they are wasting healer's slot in sc.

oppinion of another mdd dok hater who newer really played mdd dok by himself and don't know any of it's advantages and disadvantages.
If you don't know how things inside, please do not make lengthy comments on the matter, especially when arguing with a man playing the dok for more than 3 years.

and don't assume that you were the only one playing mdd dok on live

*vanishes with popcorn*

[Azarael]

Preface: I wasn't responsible for any decisions made about procs.

Your post, however, supports removing the procs.

Why? Because the loss of these procs was a big enough issue for you to claim the class was killed.

It is the view of the majority of this staff, and especially those who will lead future balance efforts, that balance will not be accomplished through itemization. That is to say that a class will not be allowed to rely upon a proc or set of procs to make it viable - it must be viable without them - and that players in general will not be told to rely upon, or be allowed to propose reliance upon or inclusion of, any given item in order to address a design or balance issue with the game. Until the classes themselves have been balanced, it will ALWAYS be better to add counters or functionality DIRECTLY to a class rather than shifting it onto an item that power classes can still use. It is my understanding that the proc sets have been deliberately adjusted, both to prevent strong classes from becoming stronger (BW losing resistance debuff proc) and to attempt to remove any must-have procs which are responsible for masking class issues.

If MDPS DoK has problems without relying on these three procs? It'll be dealt with in future, and this is obvious - because melee WP has to be fixed as well.

I would also like to note a point raised internally by another player who spotted this post before I did, which is that there are other classes in the game which apply the debuffs in question for you, far better than you can. If your perspective is that of 1on1, I'm going to be direct: We don't give a damn about it - we won't balance around it - we're not interested in hearing about it.

[bichka]

they are wasting healer's slot in sc.

oppinion of another mdd dok hater who newer really played mdd dok by himself and don't know any of it's advantages and disadvantages.
If you don't know how things inside, please do not make lengthy comments on the matter, especially when arguing with a man playing the dok for more than 3 years.

had rr100 dps dok on live, so what? it's a true. I hope devs can do something about dps healers in sc, like counting them as usual dps, but limit them somehow. So other player will not suffer, because some selfish dok want to play dps.

[Gachimuchi]

had rr100 dps dok on live, so what? it's a true. I hope devs can do something about dps healers in sc, like counting them as usual dps, but limit them somehow. So other player will not suffer, because some selfish dok want to play dps.

They did, at one point. And then the outpouring of whining due to slow sc pops was so intense that they reverted their SC matching system to just grabbing from whatever it could find.

@ OP, the sky isn't falling because you didn't get the proc you wanted. Get a grip.

[freshour]

Okay super good post! Thanks for trying your best to get the translation as clean to read as possible. I did not play on live, but due to my current situation with school I've had quite a bit of WAR time. I played the melee WP extensively, literally thousands of emblems haha, and now I'm onto the DoK. I felt similar to you in the "gimped" department at first, but just wait a second.

Being that I run slightly more torture focused than sac build, I felt that my damage was really not where it should be. However, as more people are hitting 40, their bolster is less and I"m actually hitting harder. I choose the carnage weapon in my mainhand and the 45ap in the offhand. It procs a TON as we usually get focused so you are never drained on AP more or less.

Now that I have 2 piece Merc, 1 ruin 2 piece Duelist - and 2 of the 20 str/20wounds rings I'm finally churning out some good damage and also managing to burst heal if our healer gets kd'd or silenced so it is all starting to work out. Yes, I would love the str/ws cloak to have 1% crit and not 1% heal, but there are other options that are pretty good.

So far I've found that Weapon Skill has been underrated. So I've tweaked to get it up in the 27% range at the moment. Also, I play primarily with a 2h chosen at my side and we tend to work really well off each other. I will also add that the armor from the new set has made a tremendous difference. I've yet to start using armor pots and str pots but the chosen aura and crippling strikes helps enough.

Stay strong, and grind the crap out of that SC set. It seems destro is winning up until about 20-30 mins before I wrote this post. Order EU premades get on, and in about 5-6 hours destro will clean house again unless one of the NA order guilds gets on.

In closing, I watched every single melee WP/melee DoK video on youtube. I asked every single melee WP and DoK of note and even the "closet melee healers" who are soft spoken for every single tip/tactic trick/skill I need/renown tip etc and even made a few up on my own. I won't say I am a veteran, but being a professional student in real life I've picked up as many things as I can and it seems the DoK will be just fine when we end up getting 5/5 merc set and get the jewelry done and everything. Especially as other hit 40 and their bolster is decreased.

Honestly, it is better to be feel "underpowered" than "overpowered" - DoK is certainly not underpowered. Melee healers aren't on the tankiness level of backline healers which I swear some WP have reached a level of immortality haha, but we are still not too bad. In my experience PUG"n it with no other teammates tends to yield the worst results as opposed to being on a tank or backline healer, you REALLY need a guard, and with that guard fulfill your job of heal debuffing the entire enemy backline to switch your lack of true mDPS with slightly more sustain and increasing the "effective damage" of all dps in your party with a constant heal debuff. Like everyone has said, in a 6 man group... it would need to be best in slot to not be a "hassle" to bring along and maybe it still would. But in 12v12 and so on, it can still be pretty solid. I think it is primarily Sacrifice specs that are underperforming the most as far as utility/dmg/healing but again, with grinding out the gear I believe they will be close to where they were in T3.

- Dawm.

[Jezz08]

What i would love to see is a good heal debuff for the melee WP as right now ( and on live ) they have a really bad one 25% that can be taken off and has a 20sec cd and costs 25 RF.

I would say just my 2cent for it to be on par with the doks it should be something like " when you crit on aa's you debuff the incoming heals by 50% for 10sec's " and cant be taken off just like the doks + the doks on can be aoe'ed.


But my 2cent on melee doks is that they are fine if WP's come to there lvl, they have all the tools they need, they do less dmg then a melee and die just as fast if u know how to kill them so they are fine the only thing that made them super strong was lotd weps and the wtf rr100 gear ( a dok with guard with rr100 would take on 6man of pugs easy ) but i dont think that will happen in this game so its fine. Azarael keep up the good work with the stuff your doing for dps WP's/doks, i my self have been playing my WP dps and its alot of fun.