For those of you who have complained to me about grace spec

[Stmichael1989]

http://i.imgur.com/Z150nut.jpg

Grace works just fine for healing. All it needs is a few tanks to help break up the melee train.

I'm not DPS spec. I'm not going to grab a book. If we lose, it won't be because I didn't stand in the back healing you. And sending me a whisper bitching about why you died or the lack of healing isn't going to change the fact that this is an MMO, and there's many different reasons why your side might lose.

[Azarael]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking

And before you jump on me, know that my own WP is Grace and there is a huge thread on the subject of Grace on this very forum to which I contributed extensively.

[Stmichael1989]

I would be cherry picking if I said Grace is the clearly superior spec and posted a picture of me as top healer over two salvation spec WPs. I'm refuting the claim of those who say grace is unviable by showing a scenario in which I held my own against many other full heal spec players.

Edit: That's not to say Grace doesn't need some work, most notably ways to help survive melee train focus fire and to avoid the conundrum of healing being reduced significantly against high defense/guarded targets, but it is very much possible to do well with the spec.

And no one should EVER send a healer a tell complaining about a lack of healing, or insulting them for not playing a certain way.

[Azarael]

You're still cherry picking because you presented a single scenario as proof that Grace is viable. That screenshot is one example - it tells me nothing about your average performance, the quality of your opposition, the quality of your own team or battlefield conditions.

Salvation is dominant over Grace, as much as I resent that, because it is the superior spec and because Grace is not a viable healing spec. It has far too many weaknesses to function effectively. It is fair for other players to blame you for a loss if it is down to lack of healing because your healing is unreliable and negated too easily. This can be the case even if your general heal numbers are high - if you're not able to respond to and mitigate incoming burst on demand then you are weak.

[Jaycub]

Balance is dictated by best case / ideal scenarios, not random pub matches. I can post tons of SS where my magus quadruples the next highest DPS and gets 5x the death blows but all I was doing was taking advantage of the fact the other team had 1 tank or their healers were DPS. Magus shines against comps that lack healing and mitigation, but that's hardly ideal is it?

Same goes for grace WP, it's a healer that requires a dedicated guard and is dependent on what is available to hit. Very gimmicky and only good against unorganized groups. When you are matched up against a real group where all you are able to hit is tanks and guarded MDPS your heals are going to suffer, and because you are taking a hybrid role that requires guard your teams damage output or defense (lack of tanks) is going to cause you to not be able to kill anything or you will just fold.

[Stmichael1989]

if you're not able to respond to and mitigate incoming burst on demand then you are weak.

The irony of the situation is that grace has a stronger burst heal than salv does. Divine assault against a good target has more burst healing potential than TotD spam. On top of that, 2 handers now grant the intimidating repent tactic for free (something I am very grateful for, thank you), allowing grace to spec into salv with the points left over for the party absorb shield.

Yes, it's possible to shut down my healing with defenses, and that's something that needs to be addressed in the balance patches to come. Is full Salv the better healer? It's more consistent, so it makes a strong case. But by that line of logic, we should only have 8 classes (4 per side) in this game with 1 spec instead of 24 classes with 3 specs each. And I'd be willing to bet that the person who complains to a grace spec healer for losing a scenario doesn't stop to think about the 4 shadow warriors and no tanks in the scenario.

[peterthepan3]

if you're not able to respond to and mitigate incoming burst on demand then you are weak.

The irony of the situation is that grace has a stronger burst heal than salv does. Divine assault against a good target has more burst healing potential than TotD spam. On top of that, 2 handers now grant the intimidating repent tactic for free (something I am very grateful for, thank you), allowing grace to spec into salv with the points left over for the party absorb shield.

Yes, it's possible to shut down my healing with defenses, and that's something that needs to be addressed in the balance patches to come. Is full Salv the better healer? It's more consistent, so it makes a strong case. But by that line of logic, we should only have 8 classes (4 per side) in this game with 1 spec instead of 24 classes with 3 specs each. And I'd be willing to bet that the person who complains to a grace spec healer for losing a scenario doesn't stop to think about the 4 shadow warriors and no tanks in the scenario.

Divine assault is subjected to block, parry, disarm, toughness, spirit resistances and also requires you to be in melee range without any escaping/anti-snare tools.

Grace is cool in small-scale or against pugs, but does not really shine anywhere else against competent groups/players unfortunately

[Eathisword]

if you're not able to respond to and mitigate incoming burst on demand then you are weak.

The irony of the situation is that grace has a stronger burst heal than salv does. Divine assault against a good target has more burst healing potential than TotD spam. On top of that, 2 handers now grant the intimidating repent tactic for free (something I am very grateful for, thank you), allowing grace to spec into salv with the points left over for the party absorb shield.

Yes, it's possible to shut down my healing with defenses, and that's something that needs to be addressed in the balance patches to come. Is full Salv the better healer? It's more consistent, so it makes a strong case. But by that line of logic, we should only have 8 classes (4 per side) in this game with 1 spec instead of 24 classes with 3 specs each. And I'd be willing to bet that the person who complains to a grace spec healer for losing a scenario doesn't stop to think about the 4 shadow warriors and no tanks in the scenario.

I get where you are coming from mate. I leveled 1 to 100 on live as melee WP. But no matter how you turn it in your head, it is a very selfish spec. It is fun, it looks awesome and it is arguably one of the best class to duo/trio with and one of the best melee soloer.

But in a full group (guild group, pug scenario, WB), even if you were the best in the world, you are gimping the group as a grace WP, no question.

And you have no burst/good heals... anytime you'll fight an above average tank (or even marauder), DA will get interrupted in the first 3s (taunt, KD, punt - rinse and repeat). So basically, you are down to spamming Sigmar's Radiance and hoping it is enough to keep you and your group alive... and it is not.

[Tsokushin]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking

And before you jump on me, know that my own WP is Grace and there is a huge thread on the subject of Grace on this very forum to which I contributed extensively.

Just as a quick question, do you plan on reviewing grace/wrath viability in the future?

[Flavorburst]

Is this the thread that we post our sick screenshots in?

Here is me healing as much as you as salv at level 14: http://i.imgur.com/1C3WpFb.jpg

Here is me crushing your score at level 30 (clearly before I realized that Sigmar's Shield was garbage): http://i.imgur.com/Q2hb2pC.jpg

Crushing it harder: http://i.imgur.com/BNflj0s.jpg

Wooooo!: http://i.imgur.com/vluGKh5.jpg

Look at all these scrub WPs! THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT MY GRACE!: http://i.imgur.com/0sbErog.jpg

Oh, wait: http://imgur.com/DhPuV0M

I could post a bunch more screenshots of me doing top heals in a scenario as Grace, but as far as I am concerned; Grace sucks (mainly due to the reasons Azareal posted in his thread regarding it).

Obligatory Engineers are OP and need a nerf screenshot!: http://i.imgur.com/uVvLF4i.jpg