Blackguard Changes

[Jaycub]

Recent changes to the middle tree really opened up the possibilities for an alternative spec for 2h BG, allowing it to drop choking fury and outgoing healdebuff for really unprecedented defensive options from parry tactic and crit reduction ability, and some really good utility from AoE snare to boot.
Obviously there is some heavy competition between middle and right tree in small scale, specifically scenarios. But middle tree will really make 2h BG much more viable for RvR situations where you absolutely need that extra defense. The major problem however with middle tree is it really starves you for mastery points, and really doesn't come into it's own until RR70.
There are also finished discussions on the balance forums for BG, and possibly some more buffs on the way specfically for 2h, which are terribly needed on top of some slight nerfs to BO/CH. BG could definitely come out of it's "worst PoS in the game" status soon.

Tanks are always considered in pairs, or solo. I can't really fathom BG ever being a solo tank, so I'll talk a bit about the possible synergies between CH/BG and BG/BO groups.

Running BG/BO as your tanks, you lose chosen and I think it's important to talk first about what is lost doing so. You lose auras, which sucks... but BG/BO can technically cover most everything here just not as reliably. You lose 10 sec CD super punt with the best launch angle in the game, BG 20 sec punt really hurts it when considering dropping a chosen for it, but at least it has one (unlike IB). You lose crippling strikes, now this I'm sure is up for debate on how good it is considering stacking rules, but with every slayer still running ID, and a lot of other DPS classes having ways to deal with challenge it's still pretty good and overall going to cost your group a bit of defense. You lose access to probably the most reliable KD on destro side, BO's typically don't spec for KD and mara/Ch have very gimmicky KD's at best. And lastly you lose access to one of your groups potential morale pumps which again hurts your groups overall defense pretty badly.

The good, BO having an AoE snare realieves BG of the need to grab it's in comparison much worse AoE snare and frees up some points that it's starving for if it's going middle tree. Crit stacking synergizes well with BO becuase of skull thumper. 2H BG is also bringing a heftier armor debuff. 2H BG can also bring the wounds debuff that the group loses bringing a chosen, tho it's technically up to RNG for it proc 1st hit or it becomes much much worse than the chosens. BG is gonna be doing more damage than chosen is as well if it's 2h, SnB chosen probably has the advantage with better scaling/base damage abilities.

A problem here tho is, BO tend to run a bit on the offensive side... which may make it impossible to grab outgoing healdebuff/choking fury in this setup becuase you might not be able to afford to run 2 offensively focused tanks.

Running BG/Chosen as your tanks, you lose the best aoe perma snare in the game with free str debuff/disorient from BO. You lose stat steal, ini steal is still quite strong as well. You lose skull thumper, and you lose the ST damage dealing tank. You lose a morale pump just like chosen. You lose a very powerful cooldown increaser. Funnily enough, BG is advertised as the "anti caster tank" when BO is 10x better at that with all this.
So the good, you get 2 super punts which is pretty nice. And well I didn't think it would be this bad after I typed it out... but man BO is probably never worth swapping out for a BG I'll just stop here honestly.

So what I get from all this is, BG could see use in place of a chosen possibly as a more offensive option in the future with groups not running mara. Why you would be running a group without mara? Who knows. WE also seems to sync up with BG the best, but right now mara/Chop combo is way stronger. Choking fury could also possibly let BG snake it's way into a AP drain group if they ever become popular, with shamans being much better now it's a possibility.

Gearing is something else I thought a lot about. 2 pc ruin is amazing, but makes it impossible to get the +1 on gear. The extra defense from the middle tree and good defensive talismans/jewelry should be enough to let you run full merc and not get destroyed while fulfilling your role as a tank guarding something and having a good group try and kill you as well. I think a ruin/merc mix is probably best if you are gonna go for outgoing healdebuff and choking fury. It just kinda sucks that you gotta choose between some of your best class defining utility or the only real defensive abilities/tactics you have access to that are worthwhile.

I don't know I just wanted to open up a BG thread seeing the changes to middle tree, and some possible new changes on the horizon. Looking for some insights or if I'm thinking about things wrong please tell me.

[Aurandilaz]

BG good, BO and Chosen just happen to be better. Honestly am I bit tired with my BG having reached full Anni and 40/40, it seems somewhat handicapped as a tank compared to the other two.

Will probably roll a Chosen soon, just need to figure out a good name. Or maybe level up my BO so that I can get some actual damage out.
I usually like playing "weaker" and more "challenging" classes but kinda having enough of it slowly.

All the armor buffs get wasted in T4 where you usually run a pot anyway and face limits with armour caps, and the BG buffs are single target compared to BO and CH giving party wide buffs. "Block" requirement for KD is also quite tiresome, as is waiting for Hatred to rise before your punt becomes good.

But at least the class looks good, so maybe I'll keep playing it for a while anyway, hoping for some kind of changes or buff.

[Tesq]

s+b speaking chosen side
you loose Cripple strike you gain crush the weak(which also work on healers)
you loose res aura/ Bo still have 20% magic reduction on top of keep his stat steal
you loose stag for 1 aoe snare more on top of the BO one

you loose 1 aura but you get ap regen
you loose another aura and you get soul killer

you loose moral gain for 1 tank --> gain 1 moral (and so undefitable) aoe KB

loose wounds debuff gain armor debuff?

also get ap drain (2 skill)

you loose touch of palsy that do good dmg, BG cant compete here unless roll 2h

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

pointless, sorry for trying, can be deleted

[Jaycub]

if I'm thinking about things wrong please tell me.

What makes you think that BG 2h dmg is inferior to BO dmg? Maybe your rotation is bad.
I recently grped with the best BO left in ror and the dmg is kinda equal, with a similar amount of utility and way more defense on BG.
By trading a Chosen for a BG you go for more dmg and you get more dmg. How far your defense drops depends on the rest of the setup. Shaman usually has all the buffs chosen offers and more.

Trading a 20s kick for a 10s kick is ok since you got more dmg and therefore can outpressure the enemy even in guardrange.
Despite that, BG kick is farther and more reliable (20% block 10% parry strikethrough).

Skull thumper, and the crazy base damage on THC mostly.

Not too sure about a rotation on BG, it seems really reactionary and depends on what your hate is at? I literally just started playing BG again about 5 days ago. But it's something our guild has spent hours talking about because me and a few others wanted to run it on destro so we discussed a lot of things to death and only really got to 6v6 with one maybe 4-5 times against 2 different guilds a couple months ago. We were mostly trying to play around with the outgoing healdebuff gimmicky strats.

Any advice on ability usage would be really appreciated actually.


edit: give a second and ill try and explain what im doing right now ability wise.

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

pointless, sorry for trying, can be deleted

[Jaycub]

So right now my thought process on offensive ability usage on blackguard is...

>open with snare if needed, otherwise open with pitiless strike if i have enough hate, if not go to murderous wrath for the AA haste proc
>build hate with enraged beating if needed
>armor debuff ideally at 100
>crit debuff healers, or offensive targets that might lethal if im at 100 hate
>if we are taking **** loads of dmg willpower buff a healer at 100 hate
admittedly tho, this seems to be a bit hard to do still getting used to the new hotkeys for switching party members, memorizing the positions and place in the ui etc..
>After this start dumping hate with things like crimson death/furious howl (obviously using it before hand on a target outisde of melee range if i have enough hate)

After this im just keeping up 15% crit buff with CD/pitiless/howl, murderous wrath as kinda the default spam, and building hate with channel. And using shatter enchant off CD. Use taunt at range if applicable, but i like to keep it for interrupts since it's guaranteed, using crushing anger for this as well.

Like I said, any help is really appreciated because really no one I play with does BG so I'm figuring things out on my own really.

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

pointless, sorry for trying, can be deleted

[GodlessCrom]

What rotation do you use for burst on your BG, wingz?

[Tesq]

mine s+b rotation (no one winning the pressure)
1-snare (always, it also have a dot component)
1-b rebuff toughness (both feading on weakness and tactic)
2-crush the weak (debuff healing crit too)/ mid killer (if soulf killer equip)
3-murerous wrath
4-repet on other target (omit point 3 if need to debuff multiple target with cruish the weak)

if kB/kD avaiable and taking too many dmg punt/KD a DD

Alternatively since crush the week have 5 sec cd and you want debuff enemy dmg
1-crush the weak
2-target swap
3-punt /KD away 1 enemy


2h for assist
1-snare
2-refresh toughnes tactic now if under 10 sec
3-armor debuff
4-furious howl
5-CD
6-murderous wrath spam( must have wounds debuff tactic cuz auto attack haste too)
7-reapeat

pitiless strike=ignore it if Bo alredy debuffed toughnes with stat steal or chosen is around.