[KOTBS] Solar flare

[xanderous]

So I have been pondering this Morale ability for quite some time, it would seem due to the current state of the the way morals work so far, i believe this ability has become somewhat obsolete and I will explain why.

Problem

Typically when in a large scale or even a small scale battles, destro have the ability through their tactics to generate morale points very fast, a chosen, zealot, sorc, black orc and shaman can generate their m2 within the space of 12 seconds with their relevant tactics. It would seem that Solar flare is meant to be used as a counter but due to this server morale gain rates, the ability simply cannot work as a means to counter this, sure it can drain them of all their moral but the lost moral points can be regenerate faster than the ability can be reused so it really does not work as counter.

I would like to see more variations in the use of M4's but as it stands due to the current condition of the game everyone is stuck with the same old immaculate defense strategy every order tank is forced into.

Suggestion one

Increase the damage of the ability so that it scales based on the amount of players within its 30 feet radius this would allow it to pack more punch, quite simply justifying its long build up, players hit by the blast are also knocked back equal to the distance of the blackguards knock back on full hate, this would be handy for doing some decent damage and the knock back would also rescue your allies from to the melee assist train.

Suggestion two

Replace the morale drain with stagger effect that lasts 6 seconds and increase the radius to 100 feet, this would allow some interesting set ups in either small scale to stop people from being focused down by an assist train or give tanks the opportunity to momentarily halt zergs.

Suggestion three

Remove the morale drain entirely, instead have those effected by it become disarmed, basically the flare blinds them making them drop their weapons and such.

Suggestion four

Adjust the morale drain to instead not only drain the morale completely but also apply an effect that for the next 10 seconds, continues to drain the morale for the effected players, thus halting the fast moral gains we are typically used to.

[Penril]

Moving to Discussions.

[Collateral]

I will just leave this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ-FzpkRMBw.

Iirc, we reached M4 in 15 seconds. Maybe this test is obsolete but we can repeat it if necessary. The problem with the OP is, he doesn't seem to have used it the way it was meant to be played. Order in general has absolutely no idea about the insane power of their morales, and morale generation. This M4 is clearly meant to be used in sieges, as are almost all M4s really (the only time you will really get to them). Imo this morale is pointless in small scale. Not just that you almost never reach M4, but again it's not meant to be used in small scale. Kotbs already has M3 root which he can reach in 5 seconds as seen in the video. He also has aoe stagger so idk what's the point of second suggestion. Other suggestions are pointless as well, because I believe this is actually one of the most powerful morales in the game. Yes you have to spec for it, but if there is any M4 worth specing, it's this one.

Suggestion 4 is absolutely broken. Who in their right minds can even come up with this. Seems like someone who never played with this morale, or in a group/warband that's focused on morale pumping. Order never used this morale because they simply don't know how and when to use it. If you have even only 2 kotbs with this morale in a siege, destro is done for. Morale bombing takes a lot of coordination and timing, so no you can't just build up and drop morales that fast after they are completely drained. Send 2 kotbs inside the blob before the main morale bomb and gg for destro. You drain all their tanks and dps, and then you drop your other morales. Destro can't do a single thing about it. They can however drain morale with marauders (you would have to spam marauders in your warband though) and some other classes, which is a counterplay to powerful order morales. But if order played right, they should never allow to be drain, especially in a keep siege.

So all in all, I disagree that this morale needs any change whatsoever. First thing order players should do before suggesting any changes to morales, is test them in proper environments and with proper builds. And I will keep saying this for as long as it takes, until someone actually does it and sees what I (and we as a guild) am talking about.

[Tesq]

i dont get how simply put ithis.....ncrease the dmg potential of morales will not make this game better (on both sides) when in rvr there is alredy a istant dmg morales stack problem.

1200 x8 = 9 ppl dead, not sure what part of this moral need abuff, remove 9 ppl potentialy moral 4 is nothing to joke about

change it to a stagger when alredy kobd have no escape..idk what say (with 100 feet range also??)

what grurf said this morale feel not like having problem, 1200 (?) aoe dmg + moral remove eff x 9 ppl wao...

[GodlessCrom]

I don't have a rank40 kotbs, sorry, but I would like to see evidence of people testing this out as it already is in game in actual warband settings before seeing any changes made. Collateral posted evidence already showing how morale pumps can let kotbs reach m4 relatively quickly. But that was under somewhat idealized circumstances rather than practical ones.

Not sure how to test it other than requesting that Order warbands organize and try it out. Easier said than done i suppose, but it's better than theorycrafting.

[Collateral]

Actually it's not idealized circumstances at all. You can replicate this in an intense siege battle quite easily. Stand behind a corner while in battle to avoid taking damage, get 2 ams to pump you and voila, M4 is there before you blink twice.

[Haojin]

I'd say make it 5k aoe damage 100 ft around.
Besides the joke, if you not able to reach m4 with a coordination atm that m4 will be trash anways even with the buff.

Most of the m4's in the game useless due to morale gain: back on live it was possible to use solar flare almost every minute. RoR is different story:

If you want to hit m3 in 5 second, you need 2 am to pump your morale. With morale jewels you can hit m4 with 2 am at 12-13 seconds.

All options are pointless, total morale drain is so good even without the 1200 damage.

[GodlessCrom]

Okay, I believe you. But I still wouldn't mind seeing it put into practice. I think in general the balance discussions suffer from an excess of theorycrafting and a lack of hard evidence. You guys provided us with evidence that achieving this quickly is possible, so now I would like to see it put into practice in game in actual rvr. Not trying to nitpick your point, as I said I think all balance discussions could benefit from more actual testing of balance issues.

[Penril]

Okay, I believe you. But I still wouldn't mind seeing it put into practice. I think in general the balance discussions suffer from an excess of theorycrafting and a lack of hard evidence. You guys provided us with evidence that achieving this quickly is possible, so now I would like to see it put into practice in game in actual rvr. Not trying to nitpick your point, as I said I think all balance discussions could benefit from more actual testing of balance issues.

I agree. Such a video would pretty much debunk OP immediately.

[Collateral]

I agree that the theorycrafting gets in the way too much in these discussions. If devs want to I'm sure we can do it, no problem.