Questions about the balance forum

[Akilinus]

Just curious about the balance forum. Has there been any changes in the game based on any of the proposals that players/testers have made?
If yes. Why not give the player some credit like giving a thanks or something in the patch note on the change that the player made. Just to encourage players put in more effort with the proposals.

[szejoza]

Just to encourage players put in more effort with the proposals.

Making the game for free better should be enough encouragement for players

[Draugris]

Well more often than not people posting there get a snarky comment or a denial without any explanation why they think the proposed changes are not good. Tbh. i would not waste my time there.

[Renork]

This is not to say that Penril isn't doing a good job, but there should be multiple people in charge of the balance forums (lowers the chance of bias). Of course, some proposals are just silly sometimes lol

[dansari]

This is not to say that Penril isn't doing a good job, but there should be multiple people in charge of the balance forums (lowers the chance of bias). Of course, some proposals are just silly sometimes lol

Penril is doing a fine job. He moves proposals even if he doesn't agree with them personally, and in my experience he'll only deny a proposal if you don't have a 40/40, your proposal is a mess, there's already something in the works for your proposal, it sounds like you're whining, or if what you're proposing is not really in line with the culture of the game (like footpatrol proposing that BOs get a tactic that ignores detaunts.. torque denied it because detaunts are part of the game and are always a counter to damage. You go against the spirit of the game with an anti detaunt tactic.) I got a proposal denied for SM because I wanted to give them a morale drain, and the team wants to do something else with morales. Just my player perspective 2c

[wargrimnir]

How many balance proposals have ended up in a majority consensus with a resolution that can be implemented without the patcher?

The point of the BDF is to have reasonable, easy-to-follow, pointed debate over these issues so the people implementing balance (it's not just Torque), can quickly burn through good/bad/meh ideas wot have been pre-discussed. Not many proposals end up that way.

[Darosh]

Uh, if you propose something and it ends up getting implemented... you know, that you did propose it, don't you? Unless you are suffering from Alzheimer's a shoutout bears more potential of conflict than it does for 'dem good feels - being known as the one that got xyz changed is probably not as fancy of an experience as you may think; take the constant whining and complaining in patch notes threads as an example and apply it to your inbox/ingame chat.

TLDR: I think, knowing that it is your idea>anyone else knowing it is your idea, either way ~ for various reasons.

[Akilinus]

Uh, if you propose something and it ends up getting implemented... you know, that you did propose it, don't you? Unless you are suffering from Alzheimer's a shoutout bears more potential of conflict than it does for 'dem good feels - being known as the one that got xyz changed is probably not as fancy of an experience as you may think; take the constant whining and complaining in patch notes threads as an example and apply it to your inbox/ingame chat.

TLDR: I think, knowing that it is your idea>anyone else knowing it is your idea, either way ~ for various reasons.

Ofc but im not thinking about myself more just to show others that its not a waste of your time and that the devs do use your feedback if it reasonable.

[Renork]

This is not to say that Penril isn't doing a good job, but there should be multiple people in charge of the balance forums (lowers the chance of bias). Of course, some proposals are just silly sometimes lol

Penril is doing a fine job. He moves proposals even if he doesn't agree with them personally, and in my experience he'll only deny a proposal if you don't have a 40/40, your proposal is a mess, there's already something in the works for your proposal, it sounds like you're whining, or if what you're proposing is not really in line with the culture of the game (like footpatrol proposing that BOs get a tactic that ignores detaunts.. torque denied it because detaunts are part of the game and are always a counter to damage. You go against the spirit of the game with an anti detaunt tactic.) I got a proposal denied for SM because I wanted to give them a morale drain, and the team wants to do something else with morales. Just my player perspective 2c

No one said he was doing a bad job, don't misconstruct my words Dansari.

[Valfaros]

This is not to say that Penril isn't doing a good job, but there should be multiple people in charge of the balance forums (lowers the chance of bias). Of course, some proposals are just silly sometimes lol

Penril is doing a fine job. He moves proposals even if he doesn't agree with them personally, and in my experience he'll only deny a proposal if you don't have a 40/40, your proposal is a mess, there's already something in the works for your proposal, it sounds like you're whining, or if what you're proposing is not really in line with the culture of the game (like footpatrol proposing that BOs get a tactic that ignores detaunts.. torque denied it because detaunts are part of the game and are always a counter to damage. You go against the spirit of the game with an anti detaunt tactic.) I got a proposal denied for SM because I wanted to give them a morale drain, and the team wants to do something else with morales. Just my player perspective 2c

Umm I think Penril sometimes declines proposals on personal opinion. I'd say the reason for declining proposals with penril are 40% format, 40% not having 40/40 and 20% his personal opinion.

Just look through some of the declines and you find something that fits all the requirements and just get declined for whatever reason.
Even though the proposal rule says:
"Topics formatted appropriately and supplying evidence for a particular viewpoint should be moved to Discussion regardless of the moderators' personal opinion about the topic. Their role is only to ensure that the likes "omfg sorc op pls nerf" don't make it to a discussion. If rejecting a topic, a post should be made."
I mean you can stretch the meaning of "enough evidence for a particular viewpoint" to the point it gets personal opinion but I don't think that is the right approach. Especially if you consider the second sentence it is fairly clear that everything in correct format that is not a whine thread should move to discussion. Of course am I biased for this topic aswell since my proposal didn't move through.

I still think a lot more stuff should go through it's not like they are forced to implement anything. Sometimes it's just intressting to discuss certain viewpoints in the forum.
Having several balance mods would certainly make things better but then again who would spend so much time for this project without having any benefit from it. It's already nice to have someone like Penril who is willing to spend so much time for this and keep the balance forum open.

+I'd like to see if a class change comes from a certain proposal that way you could test this change and then look back at the pros and cons discussed in the proposal and see if they are correct or not.