Ultimate Discussion About Current RvR

[Nioan]

Warhammer Online, Age of Reckoning is a RvR game and the whole notion of the game is : Realm v Realm. The big question is, what people think about current RvR system and possible suggestions without being salty ? Keep in mind the current system didn't fully implemented, so we gonna discuss about an unfinished product.

Dev Diary November 2017 : viewtopic.php?f=2&t=23916


PROS :

-Map Diversity
-No More 6-7 Hour Snore Fest Zone Locks.
-You can be pretty competitive even Level 16+
-More Players
-Accessable Posterns
-No more 3-4 k Cannon Spam
-No more 1 shotter Keep Lord
-No more locked BO's. (Who likes to wait on a BO like 4-6 minutes? )
-No more only one zone avaliable.
-Siege merchant at warcamps.
-Teleport to owned BO's.

CONS :

-Anti PvE Door System : It forces people to stay in most populated zone ; that means more zones avaliable idea falling apart. Let people try for empty keeps, greed will be punished by some people. If not, most zergy zone will be less zergy which is a good step up.

- Loser Bags : The main idea is good but i prefer defensive tick -needs a definition obviously- , most of the times people just don't prefer to defend keep when under attack. Less resistance, faster loser bags.

- Warcamp Buffs, Warcamp Cannons: One of the main reason to create middle BO [ Praag, Eataine for example ] zerg vs zerg ping pong. The fight should be over somehow, not to try bait aoe cannons, warcamp buffs. All RvR zones have multiple access [ maybe except caledor ]

- Ram Kamikaze : I think this is the most annoying thing about RvR, no need to explanation.

- BO System : Current BO's are meaningless -%30 buff/debuff is a good step up tho- , they are keep being forgotten after ram is avaliable. And that creates zerg aswell.

- Contribution and Bags : There is no formula about it and feels like it's random most of the times. I remember getting a purple bag with 1 kill and afk like 5-10 minutes with high aao. Contribution should be dissapear with 10-15 minutes of afk.

- Draw Timer : It forces people to being lazy, even its 4-5 hours, people just dont bother to take keeps.

- Easy mode Keep Lords : I remember the days keep lords were one shotting a warband, definetly not prefering that but, pugs shouldn't be able to take down a keep without any problem.

- Bottom Floor Funnel : When the keep lords were a legend, lords room funnel was a thing -hello 2016- , atm with good numbers of players you can hold bottom floor forever even you're defender or attacker.

- Keep Door Healing : I kinda liked the old system tbh which causes chaos for attackers.

SUGGESTIONS :

- BO's : No BO timers but BO's generates NPC's every X minute. Every wave will be more stronger than before and with a little chance of Rare Fortune Drop of last wave [ Designs for 24 man max but scales with numbers ]. After last wave BO locks itself like X minutes. If pug zerg tries to farm BO's one by one, system spawns a super high level lord and one shot's everyone. Also the npc's on bo should give xp aswell.

- Ram : Ram should be avaliable for attacks for sure but for preventing kamikaze; every tick of ram causes X amount of AoE damage around it.

-No AoE Cannons, No warcamp buffs : Making pvp more free will create more interesting combats imho, i'd say even pve areas people should be flagged.

-No draw timers, No loser bags : Every kill generates 2x 3x 4x 5x conq medallions depends on how aao is. Better way to motivate defenders imho.

-Morale bombs : No one enjoys getting one shot by 12312 morales at the same time cause there is no counter for it. Maybe a new immunity for morales solve it.

-Accessable Posterns : It shouldn't be avaliable for attackers if underdog got high aao.

-Onslaught aka chapter 22 pq's : Should be a RvR zone like Beastlord Lairs. More action, more drama, more blood.

-Personal AAO : Not sure if it's ever be possible but, the real AAO is imho the personal one. Let's say 10 warband on order and 5 warband on destro in a zone. Destro should have very high AAO with current system. What if destro decides to move as 5 warband all the time while order warbands moves one by one ?

[Fallenkezef]

Why shoulfn't a pug be able to take a keep lord?

[Nioan]

@Fallenkezef

I didn't say pugs shouldn't take a keep, i said pug shouldn't take a keep without any problem. a pug warband like counts 2-3 healers 2-3 tanks shouldn't take a keep, if all parties in the pug warband like 2 tank 2 dps 2 healer, why not.

[Renork]

@Fallenkezef

I didn't say pugs shouldn't take a keep, i said pug shouldn't take a keep without any problem. a pug warband like counts 2-3 healers 2-3 tanks shouldn't take a keep, if all parties in the pug warband like 2 tank 2 dps 2 healer, why not.

And what is your logic behind this? Not sure if you realize how much you contradicted yourself in a lot of your suggestions.

[Nioan]

@Fallenkezef

I didn't say pugs shouldn't take a keep, i said pug shouldn't take a keep without any problem. a pug warband like counts 2-3 healers 2-3 tanks shouldn't take a keep, if all parties in the pug warband like 2 tank 2 dps 2 healer, why not.

And what is your logic behind this? Not sure if you realize how much you contradicted yourself in a lot of your suggestions.

Logic ? I'm saying that if you look like a proper warband like 2 tank 2 dps 2 healer in each party, you shouldnt have a problem if you play properly, otherwise you shouldn't be rewarded for being in a pug zerg with 16 dps 3 healer 5 tank warband.

[M0rw47h]

@Fallenkezef

I didn't say pugs shouldn't take a keep, i said pug shouldn't take a keep without any problem. a pug warband like counts 2-3 healers 2-3 tanks shouldn't take a keep, if all parties in the pug warband like 2 tank 2 dps 2 healer, why not.

And what is your logic behind this? Not sure if you realize how much you contradicted yourself in a lot of your suggestions.

Logic ? I'm saying that if you look like a proper warband like 2 tank 2 dps 2 healer in each party, you shouldnt have a problem if you play properly, otherwise you shouldn't be rewarded for being in a pug zerg with 16 dps 3 healer 5 tank warband.

I don't get you. RvR is about fighting players.
If you can beat enemy players with 16 dps, 3 healers and 5 tank warband, you should be able to flip zone.

[Nioan]

And what is your logic behind this? Not sure if you realize how much you contradicted yourself in a lot of your suggestions.

Logic ? I'm saying that if you look like a proper warband like 2 tank 2 dps 2 healer in each party, you shouldnt have a problem if you play properly, otherwise you shouldn't be rewarded for being in a pug zerg with 16 dps 3 healer 5 tank warband.

I don't get you. RvR is about fighting players.
If you can beat enemy players with 16 dps, 3 healers and 5 tank warband, you should be able to flip zone.

RvR isn't about fighting players. RvR isn't a deathmatch scene people farm each other.

RvR is all about capturing capital, period. You can zerg and kill players with 5 X ( 16 dps 5 tank 3 healer ) warband. That doensn't make your realm successful or even that doesn't make you a successful player. I'm not sure if you ever played oldschool capital city king fights tho, you have to arrange best tanks and best dps for it, otherwise lord enrage and 1 shot everyone.

[ragafury]

hard to discuss all that things.

idk for which players RvR is tailored atm. that's why I will not contribute much to the discussion.

for uncoordinated forces it's fine. (loot, keeplord (challenging, even if it's simple), ram, drawtimer)

for premades it's meh. (loot, keeplord (boring, cause it's simple), ram, drawtimer (can kill primetime as an example)

PvDoor

Spoiler:

with the amount of ppl grabbing for low hanging fruits I think PvDoor is a really bad idea.
on the other hand it may could help splitting zerg. It would need a test and see if the population reacts.
so overall not sure.

personal AAO:

Spoiler:

so how does the shark get rid of cleaner fishes?
pugs just do what's best for them. they stick and don't ask for approval.
investing even more playtime to get rid of some on average?
I remember one eve where we suicided multiple times into praag wc to deliver the message.
it's hard to zergsplit via system. I have no viable solution for the population of the server.
the only comp that benefits from this would be 6 man RvR teams. can think about it in that case.
but tbh. they take there cut of each zone anyway if they play efficient / if they are good.

ram

Spoiler:

ram has for uncoordinated forces a good / sufficient HP pool.
for a 12 man or a premade warband it's a joke. especially if it's a T3+ keep and you have 2 chances to get rid of the ram.
ofc it's cheese. but also, most ppl rather logout and qq than tryharder and get a 2nd ram.
most problematic is the backupplan with spawning at keep 99% of the time if inner isn't damaged. that's just an additional incenctive to play like that.

keeps:

Spoiler:

overall keeps tend to be not worth the ruckus in EU prime. the tick doesn't make up for the hassle you have to go through if the server is well populated, and most premades only farm RR and not gear anymore, at least on there mains. getting farmed in a funnel for minutes / hours until the opposition or your group finally makes there mistake is super meh.
the gameplay there is also super dull if you are a) a tank (HTL HTL HTL) b) a healer (heal heal heal rezz heal heal heal) c) a mdps (waiting mostly and getting hit). if you take a keep with no AAO and 100 v 100 on everyside the outcome should be at least average green bag and a huge bonus for blue purple gold.

since the majority of players on the server prefer to pug, I guess it's better to not have huge stallment festivals.

I still hope that fortress and city will spice things up and give the campaign overall the meaning it deserves.

anyway, overall it's an improvement.

I still miss zone takebacks once keep is down, but that's anyway just me.
only "epic" feeling you could have in the RvR campaign.

[Slmjmosumb]

I don't care for many of these suggestions and actually prefer what we have now to most of them.
* I don't mind the BO guards returning but the waves of attackers is sorta meh.
* I kinda like the AOE damage from Ram idea. Would help solve the problem but allow the doors to still be usable like they are now.
* I like AOE cannons, warcamp guards and ability to have flags turned off as they have always been options. I have never played an MMO on a PvP server (always flagged everywhere) and have no interest in being forced to do so here.
* Draw timers are a welcome change to the campaign. Interminable KV is no longer an issue thanks to this change.
* Morale bombs are an issue: I'd like to see only single target damage abilities and defenses. AOE abilities would be more for utility - roots, snares, knockbacks, etc.
* Posterns are fine as they are IMO.
* Haven't tried Onslaught PQ's, but I don't mind Ruin farming being PvE so not sure they need to be made into RvR zones.
* Personal/Localized AAO is kind of a cool idea. Only if it doesn't increase server lag/crashes. I'd rather keep it as is than have it mess with an already taxed server setup.

Overall, not really in favor of most of the changes. Rather keep things as they currently are in most cases.

[Darosh]

TLDR, skipped most of it as I consider the interaction between contribution and AAO to be the most glaring issue, as it is entirely dependent on how brainafk/fairweatherish the realms behave and has a huge negative impact on the overall attitude and sentiment of players.

I personally am neither interested in, nor need gear ~ but the current situation seems to enhance the effects of pugging-induced lobotomy-esque play. I'd rate it like, and compare it to the old draw timer, tbh.

You are generally more inclined (if you run any level of organized group), as Raga stated, to intentionally throw zones/engagements just to get rid of players that essentially only contribute to encounters in form of bodyblocking, and other than that act as freenown pinatas for the opposing realm while screwing over everyone with the AAO they produce.

The above might be harsh, but seeing +3 pug warbands getting farmed by AAO-powered opposition with 1/3 the numbers is a daily occurence ~ atleast on order.