Rune Priest - mastery tree rework discussion

[AxelF]

I've been eagerly awaiting the arrival of cc in the hope that it might provide an opportunity to have a look at the mastery tree layout of two of my favourite classes - Rune Priest and Zealot, which honestly are just a total mess at the moment.

I don't think this is a balancing issue, more a quality of life change so I've stuck it here - please move if you think another forum is more appropriate. I think heal RP/Zealots are in a really good place right now, although there's no real logic to which tree your mastery points go into, or what core abilities are boosted by each tree.

The dps spec though is seriosuly hampered by the mastery tree layout. This is not an attempt to buff either spec (though dps spec will be more viable in solo, group and WB play) but more a quality of life change for each spec, and an attempt to make the tree layout more logical. I'd be really interested in the thoughts of other RPs/Zealots. See here viewtopic.php?f=15&t=27345 for the Zealot discussion.

The problem as I see it is that the RP mastery trees are completely jumbled together - I heard a suggestion that they were originally meant to be split into ST, AoE and something else, but even that looks a bit dubious. Below is the current mastery tree layout with a quick note about what each ability does and what each trees contains.



Next is my proposed layout of the mastery trees - I've tried to reorganise them into heal, utility and dps focussed trees.



3 points
No change

5 points
Rearrangement of the aura Runes to suit heal and utility trees, dps tree is left with buildup time reduction.

7 points
Swapped Ancestor's Blessing and Earth's Shielding as AP regen better suits utility tree and Rune of Shielding is now associated with the heal tree.

9 points
Only change is in the Valaya (now utility) tree, where Rune of Fate has come down from 13 points. Damage/heal values can be adjusted accordingly if needed. Rune of Burning has been moved out to the dps tree. Rune of Fortune in the Grungni tree I feel needs a total rework to something more heal focussed, but that's for a separate balance forum discussion. The tooltip also shows 100% of the damage as healing compared to the Zealot's 150%, not sure if this is just a tooltip error though.

11 points
Ancestor's Echo and Rune of Nullification swapped places - the 'shield on heal' Ancestor's Echo fits much more naturally in a heal tree, and likewise 'heal debuff on crit hit' ought to be in the dps tree.

13 points
Probably the biggest changes - Rune of Binding (stagger) moves from the heal tree to the utility tree, Grimnir's Fury (AoE rez) moves from the dps tree to the heal tree (there's been a discussion in another thread already about reworking Grimnir's Fury into something more similar to/on a par with Winds of Insanity as they occupy the same spot in their respective career's trees). Rune of Burning - the RP's main ST dps ability moves from the 9 point spot in the utility tree to the 13 point spot in the dps tree. Damage can be adjusted upwards as a result, and even better (if possible?) the 10% strikethrough that was added to the Transference tactic could be tied to this ability (activated by unlocking this ability, though not sure if this is possible? Ideally the strikethrough would remain aaplicable to all dps abilities though, not just Rune of Burning).

15 points
Unchanged.

As mentioned, DPS RPs will see the biggest benefit from these changes, as currently their three main abilities - ST damage, AoE damage and heal debuff are split across all three mastery trees. Bringing them together will hopefully make dps RP a more viable option. Right now the choice is between a strictly WB-orientated spec that takes the AoE damage spell and heal debuff which is absolutely useless outside of a WB setting as you have no real ST damage options; or a useful solo/small group spec that takes the ST damage ability and heal debuff that then has no role in a WB setting as you cannot provide meaningful AoE DPS.

This is an attempt to bring some sense to the mastery trees though that will then allow balancing to take place - I don't think it's worth proposing changes to individual abilities at the moment before some bigger scale reorganisation happens. This isn't about single specs having access to all the useful toys (with the exception of the DPS tree granting access to all of the DPS abilities, though that doesn't seem unreasonable!). See below for comparison of common current and proposed available specs.

Spoiler:

This is the common heal spec at the moment for RR 60:

RoR.builders - Runepriest

It grants access to the increased crit chance on flah heal tactic, AP rune, stagger and chance to grant a shield on heal tactic.

Under this propsed rework, a standard mastery spec for heal RP at RR60 might look like:



Giving access to the increased crit chance on flah heal tactic, AP rune, AoE rez, chance to grant a shield on heal tactic and also Rune of Fate - an additional lifetap DoT. It would also benefit from the fact that points spent in the heal tree now boost heal abilities rather than a mish mash of heal and DPS abilities.

Alternatively you could go with the following:



Which loses the AoE rez and lifetap DoT but still grants access to the stagger.

For a DPS spec, your current options at RR60 are something like:

RoR.builders - Runepriest

This gives you a ST DPS ability, tactic for your main DoT to snare and drain AP, AP rune, increased crit chance on two DPS abilities, heal debuff on crit hit tactic and stagger. Crucially though it lacks an effective AoE DPS ability.

RoR.builders - Runepriest

This gives you an AoE DPS ability, tactic that increases the size of the AoE, AP rune, increased crit chance on two DPS abilities, heal debuff on crit hit tactic and stagger. Crucially though it lacks an effective ST DPS ability.

With the new rearranged trees, a RR60 DPS spec might look like:



Giving access to the ST and AoE damaging abilities, tactic that increases the size of the AoE, heal debuff on crit hit tactic, AP rune, and Rune of Burning - an additional lifetap DoT. As with the heal spec, it would benefit from the fact that points spent in the DPS tree now boost DPS abilities rather than a mix of everything.

Alternatively you could go with:



Which loses the lifetap DoT, but picks up the tactic for your main DoT to snare and drain AP, and increased crit chance on two DPS abilities tactic. Importantly if you went with this spec though you wouldn't be able to run any of the core tactics such as increased armour or 25% additional damage.

These are not intended to be the best specs necessarily, it's just to show that there are still choices to be made - you can't have everything in one spec.

[Nameless]

No idea dps wise but that way ST healing lose mastery points that will go for stagger. And will be impossible to have rune of battle qhile heal speced. So more limitation and gimped st heals

The problem is not so much skill replacment but some totaly uselees skills and tactics. After all we got tactic that make flash heal insta cast

[peterthepan3]

Again - these are posts that are meant for the balance forum.

[Sedok]

[...] which honestly are just a total mess at the moment.

No, they aren't. Out of all the classes at the moment, both Rune Priest and Zealot are the best off in terms of balance and the structure of their class trees. Neither needs a complete overhaul in the manner you're suggesting, just tweaks and smalls changes to a few under-powered abilities.

I think heal RP/Zealots are in a really good place right now, although there's no real logic to which tree your mastery points go into, or what core abilities are boosted by each tree.

What do you mean by "no real logic to"? Grungi/Alchemy for single-target, immediate effects, Valaya/Witchcraft for over-time effects, and Grimnir/Dark Rites for area-of-effect effects.

The dps spec though is seriosuly hampered by the mastery tree layout.

No, it isn't. There are two variants of single-target, dps RP build, one that focuses on solo/dual play and utilizes lifetaps (taking Rune of Fortune, Rune of Fate, and Efficient Runecarving), while the second forgoes those for more dps and control (taking Rune of Binding and Runic Blasting). The RP has to choose between these two options, because having a full blown dps spec based on lifetaps would be way too strong.

The problem as I see it is that the RP mastery trees are completely jumbled together - I heard a suggestion that they were originally meant to be split into ST, AoE and something else, but even that looks a bit dubious.

They are supposed to be. As I mentioned above, the trees are divided into 3 types of effects for both healing and damage. Both the AM/Shaman and RP/Zealot pairings were originally conceptualized to be doing both damage and healing in a fight, with the AM/Shaman constantly switching between the two, while the RP/Zealot switched when they willed to. Obviously, that concept doesn't work in the reality of a low-TTK, mass-PvP game, but if you were going to get change that idea, you would also need to rework the RP/Zealot mechanic as well (Rune of Breaking/Harbinger of Doom), as it would be redundant.

Next is my proposed layout of the mastery trees - I've tried to reorganise them into heal, utility and dps focussed trees.

Ironically, you're overhaul promotes healing RPs taking a dps ability (Rune of Fate) in their build.

As mentioned, DPS RPs will see the biggest benefit from these changes, [...]

No, they won't. You completely gutted the lifetap build, and cornered the dps RP into a single option, the warband spec. There nothing good about your suggestion.

Bringing them together will hopefully make dps RP a more viable option.

Rune Priests don't need to "be more viable", they are fine as is; they have three main dps builds, each functioning very well in their respected roles. The warband spec doesn't need to deal bomb-level AoE, the lifetap build doesn't need burst enough to kill a healer; not every class or build can, nor should, be able to do everything. Stop trying to fix problems where there are none in the first place.

[nailinthehead]

Just like Sedok said - it is organised well enough. Few RP skills could take some minor tweaks but overall trees composition fits the Rune of Breaking mechanics.

But still - thx for well written proposal.

[dalen]

If anything I think moving the master runes up in the trees and the other abilities down would be a nicer reorganization. You never really want to spec multiple master runes anyway and it would give you more flexibility to pick other skills.

[navis]

I have to say think it's a nice idea to ponder, i would be interested in exploring some of the new options there.
But I also agree the class does function fairly well and is fun to play.
I think the middle spec looks much more interesting by moving Fate down to a spot that is more desirable to DPS spec. That change alone would make many more spec options available.

[maliya1]

Hi Guys,
Excited about the potential Rune Priest mastery tree rework! Hoping for a balance between offense and support, emphasizing the unique rune-based abilities. Increased synergy and versatility would be fantastic, promoting diverse playstyles. Lookin forward to more impactful choices that cater to both solo and group dynamics. Fingers crossed for enhanced thematic elements, making the Rune Priest truly stand out in the realm of mastery trees.

//Lilim: bot

[maliya1]

Just like Sedok said - it is organised well enough. Few RP skills could take some minor tweaks but overall trees composition fits the Rune of Breaking mechanics.

But still - thx for well written proposal.

Totally agree with Sedok's point on the solid organization. Minor tweaks to some Rune Priest skills could refine the experience, aligning them better with the Rune of Breaking mechanics. Your well-written proposal captures the essence perfectly! Thanks for the thoughtful contribution to enhancing the Rune Priest. Looking forward to seeing these ideas shape up in the rework.

//Lilim: still a bot

[BluIzLucky]

If anything I think moving the master runes up in the trees and the other abilities down would be a nicer reorganization. You never really want to spec multiple master runes anyway and it would give you more flexibility to pick other skills.

Would love to see Master Rune/Rituals (MR) be put on a 60 sec cooldown, still 30 sec duration, but can now use multiple unique MRs at the same time.

This will open up a tri-spec where you pick up all MRs instead of either stagger or AoE shield.

It will put a lot more value on the other 2 (non-heal) MRs, that barely see any play now and add a layer of decision making game play that doesn't exists now.
It will make having 2 RPs in the same group less punishing as they can now cover for each other, instead of fighting over using the heal MR.

It will also balance out RP's better AP tactic position, as ZL now get extra benefits for going middle tree.


Other than that, I'd also like some of the underperforming abilities/tactics tweaks/reworked:
Stat steal shield tactic

Grimnir's Fury => 5 sec 5 tick AoE dmg rooted channel gives a 2s 5x stackable 0.2 sec build up debuff (refreshes on each tick). You could reuse the Rune of Sundering VFX.

And finally a bit of love for AoE Dps Zealot (it's like a third of RP outside static sieges) and Mirror Of Madness.