As of the latest patch, Battlefield Objectives no longer give Experience Points, Renown Points, or Influence Points. The goal of this change was to stop people from sitting at a flag and "AFK Farming". But this has had a massive, negative impact on Tier 1 players. As a completionist, I want to get all of the Tier 1 RvR Influence Bars maxed out before I out-level them. That that is almost mathematically impossible now. In a vacuum, The change doesn't sound bad, But here's the problem in practice.
1 • This system requires enemies to be present to gain points of any kind. And if there are no enemies, You get absolutely nothing. Capturing a Zone gives you no EXP/RR/INF if you haven't gotten any combat done, And since it is Tier 1, You get no loot bag either. Meaning you can spend upwards of 30 minutes to capture a zone, And get literally no rewards at all. This is a huge problem, Because if you are playing during a non-populated Time Zone, Or if people are just busy elsewhere, There may not be people to fight, And if there are only a few, You don't get meaningful points from their deaths, Since after they die, They are worth less rewards. "This player has been killed recently and is worth reduced renown and experience."
2 • I've seen people try to argue that there should not be rewards if there aren't players to fight, After all, It's Player versus Player, Not Player versus Flag, Right? But that misses the point entirely. This system punishes you, Through no fault of your own. You are dependent on enemy players now. It doesn't matter how good you are, how coordinated you are, and how well you and your team are doing. If there's only 3 or 4 enemy players roaming around. You get absolutely nothing done, Despite how good you are or can be.
3 • To compensate for the Battlefield Objectives no longer giving you points for defending the flag, You now get a buff that increases how much renown and influence you get based on how many objectives your faction holds; 10% each. But.. 0 + 40% is still 0. And while you can get a good chunk of Experience Points and Renown from fighting on an objective and defending it, You still get no Influence Points.
This patch has made me not want to make new characters. I want to enjoy the best parts of the game, Not be punished by them.
My proposed fix is either..
A • For Tier 1, revert the patch change back to allow Battlefield Objectives to give players Experience Points, Renown Points, and Influence Points while defending them.
B • Have a system similar to the "Lockout" mechanic, A system in place so that you can only get a fixed number of EXP/RR/INF points from defending per day; Or even per week if you wanted to be extra harsh about it. That way a solo player, Or a player in an un-populated time zone can still get points from RvR and make progression.
Since Tier 2, Tier 3, and Tier 4 are all linked together, This problem does not exist to the same degree there. Due to the fact that there are far more players with active higher level characters, And due to the fact that there is no risk of out-leveling your current RvR Tier. Oh, And No. You can't just buy an Instructor's Scroll to slow down how much experience you gain. It's a level 16 item, The level at which you are transformed into a chicken for being flagged in Tier 1.
The problem with Tier 1 RvR in regards to the latest Battlefield Objective Patch.
Ads
Re: The problem with Tier 1 RvR in regards to the latest Battlefield Objective Patch.
The problem with the change to BO ticks is that whoever thought it was a good idea must not have remembered what it was like before they existed.
Yeah people can go afk on a BO and get small passive rewards for no effort. Who is that hurting? Seems like the real problem is people just dont like the idea of it.
On the other hand you will have lots of people complaining that there is no reason to hold a BO. Whether that is a real problem or percieved, people are going to complain. That's probably the biggest reason ticks were implemented in the first place.
Then there is also the issue where it was some type of reward during periods of low activity where you could get something when there was no real action.
BO ticks arent an ideal PvP mechanism. But they remained in place for so long because they are better than the alternatives.
Yeah people can go afk on a BO and get small passive rewards for no effort. Who is that hurting? Seems like the real problem is people just dont like the idea of it.
On the other hand you will have lots of people complaining that there is no reason to hold a BO. Whether that is a real problem or percieved, people are going to complain. That's probably the biggest reason ticks were implemented in the first place.
Then there is also the issue where it was some type of reward during periods of low activity where you could get something when there was no real action.
BO ticks arent an ideal PvP mechanism. But they remained in place for so long because they are better than the alternatives.
- Onemantankwall
- Posts: 523
Re: The problem with Tier 1 RvR in regards to the latest Battlefield Objective Patch.
Only one complaining is the zerg riders play the other side (population shifts dayly) farm the higher numbers easy max inf like how we had to do it on live "Oh but i want to play this toon NOW!!!" But is afking on a bo actually playing? Pretty sure majority would say no. It's not a bo tick problem its a player mentality problem. People now days expect that participation trophy whether they win/lose/do anything. Doesn't work in RL shouldnt work in game, you want something, earn it!
Lots of alts, more alts for the alt gods!
-
- Posts: 9
Re: The problem with Tier 1 RvR in regards to the latest Battlefield Objective Patch.
[reposting my suggestion from a similar thread]
Here's my two cents based on seeing the effects of the current changes as well as past experience in other mass pvp games.
Suggestion Goals:
1. Encourage actively playing instead of passively standing around soaking up reward ticks.
2. Reward attempting to take objectives.
3. Reward attempting to hold objectives.
4. Encourage spreading out to defend multiple BO's instead of blobbing and doing a brainless zerg patrol when possible.
Assessment of player populace and psychology:
There are two main groups of players, with some overlap, those that play primarily to fight, and those that play primarily to advance along the path of least resistance. The latter are unfortunately the majority so any changes must be taken into account to ensure they show up to drive the pvp content for the former.
BO's (all tiers)
Capturing a BO will award the attackers an upfront chunk of Renown and XP/gold based on the rank of the BO at the time of capture. The capture timers should be relatively short to punish leaving a BO deserted or under-defended, and to encourage small groups to seek out and cap enemy possessed BO's that are in such a state for the easy renown gains.
BO's rank up over time as they are held, and decrease in rank when captured. (This is to discourage BO "trading", constant flipping a particular BO over a short time window would rapidly de-rank it back down to level 1) Defensive kills within a BO also cause it to rank up faster. High ranked BO's contribute more to the zone control ticks as well.
Possession of a BO grants the possessing side a zone wide scaling bonus based both on the rank and number of BO's held.
Defending a BO grants the local defenders at that BO an additional scaling bonus to renown/xp/gold rewards based on the rank of the BO, which stacks with the zone wide bonus. (Perhaps to the point of ensuring a minimum floor on kill rewards to make it worth killing even attackers that normally only grant 1 xp/renown) Also, defensive kills also get added into the zone lock reward pool bonus.
BO's (T2+)
BO's in addition to the prior mechanics, also interact with the keeps in their zone by granting a defensive bonus to the Lord. This is to encourage both taking *and* holding BO's even during a keep assault. Attackers will want to take BO's to weaken the Lord as well as to gobble up the BO capture reward. Defenders will also want to hold all the BO's to make the Lord as beefy as possible, as well as to keep their zone and local defense bonuses stacked as high as possible.
Mechanics not used and why:
BO lockout timers, be they hard timers or soft timer on the reward schema: this is because it encourages blobbing by preventing or discouraging an immediate recap by a small group once a zerg caps a BO and moves on. BO's should require and reward constant defense at all times to encourage zerg fragmentation over time.
Here's my two cents based on seeing the effects of the current changes as well as past experience in other mass pvp games.
Suggestion Goals:
1. Encourage actively playing instead of passively standing around soaking up reward ticks.
2. Reward attempting to take objectives.
3. Reward attempting to hold objectives.
4. Encourage spreading out to defend multiple BO's instead of blobbing and doing a brainless zerg patrol when possible.
Assessment of player populace and psychology:
There are two main groups of players, with some overlap, those that play primarily to fight, and those that play primarily to advance along the path of least resistance. The latter are unfortunately the majority so any changes must be taken into account to ensure they show up to drive the pvp content for the former.
BO's (all tiers)
Capturing a BO will award the attackers an upfront chunk of Renown and XP/gold based on the rank of the BO at the time of capture. The capture timers should be relatively short to punish leaving a BO deserted or under-defended, and to encourage small groups to seek out and cap enemy possessed BO's that are in such a state for the easy renown gains.
BO's rank up over time as they are held, and decrease in rank when captured. (This is to discourage BO "trading", constant flipping a particular BO over a short time window would rapidly de-rank it back down to level 1) Defensive kills within a BO also cause it to rank up faster. High ranked BO's contribute more to the zone control ticks as well.
Possession of a BO grants the possessing side a zone wide scaling bonus based both on the rank and number of BO's held.
Defending a BO grants the local defenders at that BO an additional scaling bonus to renown/xp/gold rewards based on the rank of the BO, which stacks with the zone wide bonus. (Perhaps to the point of ensuring a minimum floor on kill rewards to make it worth killing even attackers that normally only grant 1 xp/renown) Also, defensive kills also get added into the zone lock reward pool bonus.
BO's (T2+)
BO's in addition to the prior mechanics, also interact with the keeps in their zone by granting a defensive bonus to the Lord. This is to encourage both taking *and* holding BO's even during a keep assault. Attackers will want to take BO's to weaken the Lord as well as to gobble up the BO capture reward. Defenders will also want to hold all the BO's to make the Lord as beefy as possible, as well as to keep their zone and local defense bonuses stacked as high as possible.
Mechanics not used and why:
BO lockout timers, be they hard timers or soft timer on the reward schema: this is because it encourages blobbing by preventing or discouraging an immediate recap by a small group once a zerg caps a BO and moves on. BO's should require and reward constant defense at all times to encourage zerg fragmentation over time.
Re: The problem with Tier 1 RvR in regards to the latest Battlefield Objective Patch.
If someone is so bad that only sit on a BO when fighting is going on those little renown tics arent going to help them. So who cares?Onemantankwall wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:08 am Only one complaining is the zerg riders play the other side (population shifts dayly) farm the higher numbers easy max inf like how we had to do it on live "Oh but i want to play this toon NOW!!!" But is afking on a bo actually playing? Pretty sure majority would say no. It's not a bo tick problem its a player mentality problem. People now days expect that participation trophy whether they win/lose/do anything. Doesn't work in RL shouldnt work in game, you want something, earn it!
When mythic first introduced the ticks I think I failed against it. Probably for lots of the same reasons other people are now. I dont care about needing a reason to hold a BO. Lots of people will complain about that I am not one of them.
The good thing the ticks did is gave you something when the other side doesnt show up. When both sides are populated well, the ticks are irrelevant to me. I spent 30 minutes in a zone the other day and got like 300 renown for a keep lord and nothing else, just because the other side didnt show up. I should have logged off it was boring and gave no rewards.
BOs arent hidden if you dont want the person ther side to get ticks, take it from them.
I dont know why a decent player would care if a bad player wants to sit and gain ticks for nothing. It seems like it should be beneath them.
My two cents, but I dont think one side shouldnt have access to rewards because the other side doesnt show up. War existed before BO ticks were a thing so nothing is going to crash and burn, it's just lame for any time with low populations. And low population times were already pretty lame even with the ticks.
- Onemantankwall
- Posts: 523
Re: The problem with Tier 1 RvR in regards to the latest Battlefield Objective Patch.
If you don't plan to play then simply dont log on its bad for the community bad for morale bad for aao/malus bad for lord hp scaling people should of never been rewarded for idly rotting and now its fixed so the ones can either adept and join the rest of the community and support healthy server activity and the ones who cant adept to a active playstyle either quit or find something else out of the lakes to do. If i threw a RL leech on you would your logic be to just leave it be sucking your blood because its just an inferior creature? No, you're gonna try to remove it, likewise thats what this change doesadamthelc wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:11 amIf someone is so bad that only sit on a BO when fighting is going on those little renown tics arent going to help them. So who cares?Onemantankwall wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:08 am Only one complaining is the zerg riders play the other side (population shifts dayly) farm the higher numbers easy max inf like how we had to do it on live "Oh but i want to play this toon NOW!!!" But is afking on a bo actually playing? Pretty sure majority would say no. It's not a bo tick problem its a player mentality problem. People now days expect that participation trophy whether they win/lose/do anything. Doesn't work in RL shouldnt work in game, you want something, earn it!
When mythic first introduced the ticks I think I failed against it. Probably for lots of the same reasons other people are now. I dont care about needing a reason to hold a BO. Lots of people will complain about that I am not one of them.
The good thing the ticks did is gave you something when the other side doesnt show up. When both sides are populated well, the ticks are irrelevant to me. I spent 30 minutes in a zone the other day and got like 300 renown for a keep lord and nothing else, just because the other side didnt show up. I should have logged off it was boring and gave no rewards.
BOs arent hidden if you dont want the person ther side to get ticks, take it from them.
I dont know why a decent player would care if a bad player wants to sit and gain ticks for nothing. It seems like it should be beneath them.
My two cents, but I dont think one side shouldnt have access to rewards because the other side doesnt show up. War existed before BO ticks were a thing so nothing is going to crash and burn, it's just lame for any time with low populations. And low population times were already pretty lame even with the ticks.
Lots of alts, more alts for the alt gods!
Re: The problem with Tier 1 RvR in regards to the latest Battlefield Objective Patch.
It negatively effects the other stupid mechanics that were implemented, got it.
I am not going to cry over paltry ticks that I never cared about anyway. The biggest negative I pointed out, that you selectively ignored, was what it does to low pop times. But seeing as I log out at those times, because I found BOs boring, I am not going to spend much time arguing the point.
The change doesnt do much. Bad players that would rather sit on a BO than fight arent going to provide much if forced to play.
I am not going to cry over paltry ticks that I never cared about anyway. The biggest negative I pointed out, that you selectively ignored, was what it does to low pop times. But seeing as I log out at those times, because I found BOs boring, I am not going to spend much time arguing the point.
The change doesnt do much. Bad players that would rather sit on a BO than fight arent going to provide much if forced to play.
Re: The problem with Tier 1 RvR in regards to the latest Battlefield Objective Patch.
Play the side, which is outnumbered and fill your influence bar in a handful kills, if having high aao.
Don't stick to one side, if it is the bigger one.
This is entirely a player made problem.
If you want to play the zerg side, accept your lack of progress in pvp or go for pve.
You even gather rested-xp bonus on your other char and can continue to play him, when balance shifts again.
Don't stick to one side, if it is the bigger one.
This is entirely a player made problem.
If you want to play the zerg side, accept your lack of progress in pvp or go for pve.
You even gather rested-xp bonus on your other char and can continue to play him, when balance shifts again.
Dying is no option.
Ads
- Onemantankwall
- Posts: 523
Re: The problem with Tier 1 RvR in regards to the latest Battlefield Objective Patch.
Nothing was ignored i just didnt wanna repeat myself...adamthelc wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:42 am It negatively effects the other stupid mechanics that were implemented, got it.
I am not going to cry over paltry ticks that I never cared about anyway. The biggest negative I pointed out, that you selectively ignored, was what it does to low pop times. But seeing as I log out at those times, because I found BOs boring, I am not going to spend much time arguing the point.
The change doesnt do much. Bad players that would rather sit on a BO than fight arent going to provide much if forced to play.
Low pop times where 1 side is sitting with nothing to do switch to other realm reap the rewards not motivated to play? Well just sit there and get nothing, their choice and idk where u keep getting bad players from its hard to fail at t1. if you can't hit 4 buttons (at lvl 1, 1 button) in rotation then maybe mmos arent for you tho even console controllers have more than 4 buttons... Maybe downgrade to board games?
Lots of alts, more alts for the alt gods!
- Onemantankwall
- Posts: 523
Re: The problem with Tier 1 RvR in regards to the latest Battlefield Objective Patch.
Whats awesome is the new bo system gives pve kills more xp for the zerging side holding all the bos so even when ur 100% dominating you can be farming xp killing mobs idk if it effects quests thats a dev question
Lots of alts, more alts for the alt gods!
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot] and 5 guests