On Cities Starvation, Population Disparity and Classes Balance

[Ysaran]

This post is based only on my personal perception of the game, and I'm actually hoping to be wrong.
I play mostly during EU primetime and since September I'm playing with my guild on Destru side, even thought we are long time Order players.

I believe there's a thread that binds the current Cities instances starvation, the population disparity and the percieved classes imbalance between Order and Distru.

While I log on my Destru chars I can easily find a group for either SC or ORvR but often SCs don't pop or we can't find any others roamers in the lakes. It's difficult to find challenging fights and usually our opponents are either soloers or blobs of dps AMs/Engies/rSWs. From my point of view, the lakes lacks in Order's roaming parties and actually, the few time I log on Order, I can't find any party to roam/SC with. I noticed that on Distru seems easier to find a group outside of your own Guild/Allience. This difficulty on Order side, IMHO, is due to the abbundace of rdps. Indeed stacking rdps is a very effective strategy in ORvR: assisting each other grant to kill the target before it can reach melee range and so, being a real menace. On the other hand, rdps don't perform so well in SCs because of the even number of opponents and because of the SCs mechanics itself, i.e. capture and defend the flag. Rdps require to be often on the move, while melees have less problem staying stationary. Thus, the low number of Order player in the queues, and so the low pop rate of SCs on Distru.
Beside the number of players, Cities are SCs to all effects and so ranged classes, on Order as on Distru, have many difficulties finding proper parties/WBs, which lead in the lower winning rate for Order and on a high level of City desertion-rate/disinterest. Which leads to the problem of City instance starvation on Distru.

Basicly I think that the reason why Order perform so well in ORvR is the same that makes Order so weak in Cities/SCs: too many rdps.
I can't tell the reasons behinde the huge disparty in Order/Distru rdps numbers. IMHO Order suffers of a problem of inner imbalance, i.e. there are Order's classes, either mdps or rdps, that outshine the others Order's mdps/rdps. Thus leading the outshined classes to not be played.

As I said before this is only my personal opinion and I'm not sure to be observing a real phenomenon, or just a perceived one. If you don't agree on my analysis please comment below and explain me why. I'm realy curious about your opinions.
Just, please, retain yourself from commenting things like "Distru win more city because Mara > Melee Engie, because Mara has ability X while Melee Engie have the lame Y ability".
If I wanted to read some drama I would have hopened yet another Salyer vs Choppa post.

P.S. I'm not saying that this is a player based issue, on contrary I think that this problem should be adressed by the Devs by finding the right balance between ORvR potential and city potential of each class.

[Winry]

Maybe not nerfing order melee classes would help.

[Detangler]

A long time ago someone did a data pull over a few days showing the class distribution on each side with raw numbers and percentages for each class (WL, 8.2%, slayer 6.5%, etc.). It clearly showed order had less proportionate tanks and more engineers vs destro. I don't know how much the population has shifted in the (possibly) years since it was posted due to balance changes, but I can't imagine it being all that much.

[Sundowner]

Nerf order melee classes more, do not give good smallscale/solo options for tanks and nothing will change

[VindicoAtrum]

Well they just nerfed WL and assault SW, so the problem will continue getting worse!

[Gurf]

For roaming in small parties it was pretty much pointless as Order mdps as Shammy was unkillable and Shammy was everywhere you go. Now we will have to see after change to run away whether they are still God tier roaming.

[Ysaran]

From my point of view, Order has a lot of possibility in small scale, it's just that it doesn't translate well when it comes to WB. An example is aSW: the recent pounce change will not affect realm balance because aSW is played only in small scale and City ST party. aSW perform very well in SC and roming, but you would never stack aSW in wb, or even take more than one. Same goes for WH. Destru has much more melee option than order when it comes to 24vs24, even thought the best dps are on Order. Large scale potential of Order's melees should be reditributed.
The recent change to WH I think is a step in the right direction, even thought thae an AoE armor debuff on such core skill might be a little too much

[VindicoAtrum]

From my point of view, Order has a lot of possibility in small scale, it's just that it doesn't translate well when it comes to WB. An example is aSW: the recent pounce change will not affect realm balance because aSW is played only in small scale and City ST party. aSW perform very well in SC and roming, but you would never stack aSW in wb, or even take more than one. Same goes for WH. Destru has much more melee option than order when it comes to 24vs24, even thought the best dps are on Order. Large scale potential of Order's melees should be reditributed.
The recent change to WH I think is a step in the right direction, even thought thae an AoE armor debuff on such core skill might be a little too much

I've shelved my aSW. They were decent at small scale, nothing amazing. We had ranged ailment + heal debuff, mediocre gap closer -> knockdown. Now we have no ranged ailment, no ability to stick heal debuff from range without someone else sticking ailment first, piss poor gap closer, less defenses.

At that point just go play slayer already, you'll get into cities, you'll get guards, you'll actually kill stuff.

Seriously hoping they realise the 20ft nerf was too much on all the pounces.

[Aurandilaz]

Remove Engi from game and suddenly the amount of rdps players on Order equals the amount of rdps players on Destro.

Anyway, Order melee ball is more effective than Destro melee ball when it comes to highest possible potential between equally competent+geared players, it's just that the amount of good order guilds with full wb rosters is quite low compared to the destro arsenal of guilds running 2-2-2 setups.
Having WL nerfed does not help the Order frontlines, and another maybe more impactful difference is the lower number of Order tanks versus people playing Chosen/BORK/BG for fashion/looks.
IB is bit boring and having to play a piano to dish out ST buffs/debuffs might not be the most beloved tank class to play (plus you have to play a dwarf) - their 2h spec could probably use some minor boosting.
SM has received some nerfs over the years, from latest WoH range nerf to midtree 13pts being gutted, minipunt that requires block, removal of their Heavens Blade resis debuff.
KOTB has been thoroughly nerfed time after time, it remains solid WB tank pick, but their dmg output is abysmal as always, their crit buffs have been gutted, their m2 was at one time nerfed to have a 120s cd before getting some other nefs, Runefang has been nuked... Sure, the class might remain the most wanted tank for warbands even now, but good luck retaining players that want to remain knight mains if all you get is nerf after nerf year after year.


Order isn't somehow weak, but the absurd way some classes are overbuffed (engi buffs) versus hammering down nerfs down the throats of other classes (WL, Sm, Kotb, WH) and you start realizing why people would rather play rdps classes.

[oaliaen]

Wh whit aoe armor debuff...but golden boys always want everything.