3 years of patch notes from a destruction warband perspective

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satanlol
Posts: 32

3 years of patch notes from a destruction warband perspective

Post#1 » Thu May 20, 2021 11:07 pm

I’ve been around on this server for nearly three years now and this is my attempt to summerize the patches from early 2019 to the middle of 2021 from a warband perspective. I’ve haven’t been playing the game for the last months because I don’t enjoy some of the changes to the gameplay that has happened over the years. As I said to my guild before leaving the game: "I do think the game is in a somewhat more balanced state now, but I enjoyed the faster gameplay of morale bombing."

During my time on the server I’ve been involved in the warband scene on the destruction side so have that in mind when you continue reading. I've been leading warbands weekly, taking keeps, losing keeps, winning forts, losing forts, arranging duels with multiple guilds and players, you name it. One could say I’ve done it all from a warband perspective.

During this period of time patches have changed the flow and balance of the game, both in a positive and negative way. Every balance change has its toll but can we see a pattern over the years?

I dived into the archives of the forum and looked up all the patch notes since I started playing. Note that below I’ve listed the changes that affected the flow of the game, or the balance of the game from a warband perspective. There are multiple changes that affected both Order and Destruction in different ways over the years, like size of the doors, terrain and buffs to single target damage but have in mind the warband perspective of this post.

If you find any patch note that I’ve missed and major changes that needs to be included here. Feel free to inform me and I can edit the post. If there's any conclussion you can draw from this limited amount of sources feel free to add them to the discussion.
Spoiler:
1/1 - 2019 - 1/10 2019
There were definitely some changes during this time but I struggled to find anything that had an impact on the warband scene. Feel free to fill in with patch notes or other changes during this time that changed the flow and balance of the game.
Spoiler:
19/10 - 2019 (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=33668)
The AoE cap increased to 24 players. We can have a very long discussion of who this benefits the most. But from how I see it, Destruction with their knockdowns and faster morales came out stronger than Order after this patch.
Spoiler:
2/11- 2019 (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=33822)
Fix to the Flashfire tactic of the Bright Wizard. Small buff to Order playstyle.
A 9 player cap for some major morales implemented. Huge nerf to Solar Flare and Windblock. Affected both Destruction and Order and I’m not sure who came out “winning”.
Spoiler:
4/1 -2020 (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=34703)
Nerf to Kotbs over performing AP aura. Also a nerf to the morale drain of WE and WH. This patch affected Order the most due to their only morale drain, which some guilds started to use, got nerfed.
Spoiler:
8/2- 2020 (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=35169)
Winds of Insanity can now be interrupted. A nerf to the AoE Runepriest and AoE Zealot with heal debuff now only applying on a single target. A nerf to both sides but will, according to the discussion in the thread, affect Destruction more than Order.
Spoiler:
22/2 - 2020 (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=35369)
Nerf to Indigestion and Shatter Limbs.
Spoiler:
28/3 - 2020 (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=36853)
Rework of the Marauder. Major damage buff to Marauder with the cost of their efficient morale drain. The damage components of all Path of Monstrosity abilities gets reverted in a future patch while the morale nerf stays.
Spoiler:
8/4 - 2020 (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=37261)
An attempt to buff Chosen with Dire Shield but an unexpected outcome due to the 24-man cap forced the changes to be reverted.
Spoiler:
22/4 - 2020 (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=37733)
Shield DoK/WP rework starts here.

Spoiler:
10/6 - 2020 (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=39021)
Major nerf to morale damage. This is of course a nerf to both Order and Destruction but from a warband perspective it’s more of a nerf to the playstyle of Destruction than the one of Order.

Rework of the Shadow Warrior - giving them a much needed rework for the warband playstyle. Also giving them morale drain, something that before was exclusive to the Destruction side. Note that the Shadow Warrior will be nerfed in the future patches.
Spoiler:
6/8 - 2020 (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=40183)
Revert of the Marauder AoE buff. Path of Monstrosity abilities are now back to before the rework. Buffs to Ironbreaker to make it more viable in group play.


Spoiler:
2/9 -2020 (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=40764)
Zealots M4 AoE healdebuff no longer stacks with other heal debuffs. With the current game mechanic that abilities stack with morals this being the only exception?. If it stacks with itself (Two Zealots) I can agree on the nerf.

Also some tuning to WP and DOK


Spoiler:
23/9 - 2020 (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=41193)
Slayer AoE heal debuff (Looks like a challenge M4) finally gets nerfed/fixed, ages after the Choppa versions nerf.


Spoiler:
2/10-2020 (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=41368)
Implementation of Purgatory and Shadow of Death. Buffs to WE and WH.

Also a fix to “Git to da Choppa”. Now it’s defendable.


Spoiler:
23/10-2020 (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=41771)
Nerfs to Two-handed Kotbs and Chosen.


Spoiler:
5/11 - 2020 (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=41983)
An attempt to buff Chosen but it ended up with an instant nerf to the new version of the tactic Corruptive Power.


Spoiler:
11/11 - 2020 (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=42102)
Buff to the Engineer’s build up time ability. Previously it was tied to the Concussive mine (stagger). Now it’s on an ability with 10 seconds cooldown. Now there’s both a stagger and build up on the Engineer that is unmatched on the Destruction side.

AoE build up like this can be found on the Marauder on Destruction side and the AoE Stagger on the Magus and Chosen.


Spoiler:
27/11 - 2020 (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=42367)
Rework to the Ranged SH. Major buff to the class in the single target department. I can’t evaluate how this affected the warband playstyle. But as far as I understood this buff was mostly to Single Target.


Spoiler:
25/12 - 2020 (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=42831)
Small tweaks to various Order characters and small fixes to the overperforming Squig Herder.
AoE armor reduction on WH is the major buff here that lacks corresponding ability on Destro side.


Spoiler:
20/5 -2021 (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=45257)
Major changes to the morale pump of Destruction. Removed the CDR from Black Orc.
Buffing Sword Masters CDR to a level now better than Destruction's version. Black Orcs version is tied to a tactic slot. Sword Masters is an ability with an interupt.

A nerf to both melee and ranged Squig Herder.


What conclusions can we draw?
The melee Squig Herder is common in the discussion over the years. It’s an overperforming class that got some tweaks that buffed them and sometimes nerfed them over time. Let’s see where it stands with the latest changes.

Another class that has been a hot topic over the years is the White Lion, but due to its single target potential its changes do not really affect the warband scene that much. With other words, I have a hard time seeing the effect of the various White Lions changes. For example there is a nerf to White Lion's superior slows from 10 to 5 seconds. 1/7 - 2020 (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=39466)


[*] Destruction changes are more likely to be reverted than Order changes.

[*] There are more changes affecting the core gameplay of Destruction than of Order. (Morale drain nerfs, morale pump nerfs, morale damage nerfs.)

[*] Beside the rework of the Marauder it’s hard to find a buff to abilities of Destruction that can affect their playstyle in a positive way. There was an attempt with the Chosens Dire Sheilding tactic but it got reworked and nerf a week later. SH has some changes, both ranged and melee, that might fit here.

[*] On the other hand we can see multiple abilities on Order getting buffed like the build up grenade from Engineer, the new reworked WW on Swordmaster and morale drain on the Shadow Warrior.

[*] When there is a nerf to Order there’s most likely a nerf to Destruction in the same patch. When there is a buff to Destruction there’s most likely a buff to Order in the same patch. Only on a few occasions can we see that a faction gets favourly buffed, this is mostly tied to the reworks. You can see a small buff to engineer and Ironbreaker that lacks equivalent buffs on Destro side. But on the other hand you can see the attempted buff to Dire Shielding and the various buffs/nerfs to melee SH here.

I sincerely believe that the elephant in the room is the 24-man AoE cap that was implemented as a test 19/10-2019. This fundamental change to the core mechanics of the game changed the flow and balance of the game in so many ways. In the end, I think Destruction got the better of it and from then on their gameplay around pumping and draining morale while controlling the enemies got way out of hand. What we have seen over the past years with the changes to various destruction classes, some attempted buffs but mostly nerfs, is the result of a faction overperforming not because they have better classes per mirror, they have better and more tools to wipe out a 24-man blob. Don’t get me wrong. I’ve enjoyed the pace of the game with the 24-man AoE cap and the full damage from morales, but the fundamentals and core of this game was not meant for it.

We are now in a scenario where the devs are trying to change the classes and the strenght of the factions into the 24-man meta and that's a very heavy burden. It does not only limits what you can do with the classes and factions, it also forces the game to be and more mirror based to avoid unbalance. Which in the end leads to the scenario we're in now, one faction feels pointed at and most nerfs are happening to their faction.

What could have been done differently instead of aimlessly trying to change the classes to fit into the 24-man cap meta?

If a 9-man, or 12-man or even a 15-man AoE cap was tested before touching the fundamentals of each faction or class, we would have more information on what abilities that overperformed (morale drain, heavy AoE CC etc) or what classes underperformed (SW, WE, WH). Even a 24-man AoE cap with a 9-man cap for damage morales could be something that helped us find the elephant in the room. Perhaps the easiest solution to the problems we face with buffs, nerfs and unbalance that causes tention between players, factions and developers is to revert the 24-man cap and test some kind of modification of it?

Sorry for any misspelling or patch note misses, it's getting late in Europe.

(Edited clarification of the Marauder changes and revert)
Last edited by satanlol on Fri May 21, 2021 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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wargrimnir
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Re: 3 years of patch notes from a destruction warband perspective

Post#2 » Thu May 20, 2021 11:42 pm

Had me in the first half. Didn't expect to end on AoE cap.
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agemennon675
Posts: 539

Re: 3 years of patch notes from a destruction warband perspective

Post#3 » Fri May 21, 2021 12:10 am

Just wanted to point out that the patch where marauder skills got buffed across almost all abilities you said that the dmg buff was reverted but only a few skills like wrecking ball got tuned down to match WL level other buffs still stayed
Destruction: 40-BG / 40-DoK / 40-Chosen / 37-Mara / 37/Sorc / 36-SH / 36-Choppa / 24-Shaman / 16-WE
Order: 40-SW / 40-SM / 40-WP / 40-WL / 39-Kotbs / 38-BW / 33-AM / 22-WH / 16-RP / 12-Slayer

Krima
Posts: 616

Re: 3 years of patch notes from a destruction warband perspective

Post#4 » Fri May 21, 2021 12:10 am

AoE armor reduction on WH is the major buff here that lacks corresponding ability on Destro side.
Out of nothing tell u the truth.
Im a WE and I think pounce just buff their 1v1. not really necessary. The class lacks grp utility.
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madrocks
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Re: 3 years of patch notes from a destruction warband perspective

Post#5 » Fri May 21, 2021 12:17 am

I sincerely believe that the elephant in the room is the 24-man AoE cap that was implemented as a test 19/10-2019. This fundamental change to the core mechanics of the game changed the flow and balance of the game in so many ways. In the end, I think Destruction got the better of it and from then on their gameplay around pumping and draining morale while controlling the enemies got way out of hand. What we have seen over the past years with the changes to various destruction classes, some attempted buffs but mostly nerfs, is the result of a faction overperforming not because they have better classes per mirror, they have better and more tools to wipe out a 24-man blob. Don’t get me wrong. I’ve enjoyed the pace of the game with the 24-man AoE cap and the full damage from morales, but the fundamentals and core of this game was not meant for it.
Exactly. It's that simple.
Many of us warned the staff, but everyone likes to see numbers.
Last edited by madrocks on Fri May 21, 2021 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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agemennon675
Posts: 539

Re: 3 years of patch notes from a destruction warband perspective

Post#6 » Fri May 21, 2021 12:19 am

madrocks wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 12:17 am
I sincerely believe that the elephant in the room is the 24-man AoE cap that was implemented as a test 19/10-2019. This fundamental change to the core mechanics of the game changed the flow and balance of the game in so many ways. In the end, I think Destruction got the better of it and from then on their gameplay around pumping and draining morale while controlling the enemies got way out of hand. What we have seen over the past years with the changes to various destruction classes, some attempted buffs but mostly nerfs, is the result of a faction overperforming not because they have better classes per mirror, they have better and more tools to wipe out a 24-man blob. Don’t get me wrong. I’ve enjoyed the pace of the game with the 24-man AoE cap and the full damage from morales, but the fundamentals and core of this game was not meant for it.
Exactly. It's that simple.
Many of us warned the staff, but everyone likes to see numbers.
Well its an Mmorpg ofc everyone likes to see numbers, do you not like it ?
Destruction: 40-BG / 40-DoK / 40-Chosen / 37-Mara / 37/Sorc / 36-SH / 36-Choppa / 24-Shaman / 16-WE
Order: 40-SW / 40-SM / 40-WP / 40-WL / 39-Kotbs / 38-BW / 33-AM / 22-WH / 16-RP / 12-Slayer

Powell
Posts: 50

Re: 3 years of patch notes from a destruction warband perspective

Post#7 » Fri May 21, 2021 6:42 am

Thank you for putting such effort into your post and giving references and examples of your point of view. At the very least I appreciate the work and insight.

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dalen
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Re: 3 years of patch notes from a destruction warband perspective

Post#8 » Fri May 21, 2021 8:05 am

satanlol wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 11:07 pm 28/3 - 2020 (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=36853)
Rework of the Marauder. Major damage buff to Marauder with the cost of their efficient morale drain. The damage components get reverted in a future patch while the morale nerf stays.
Well, not really correct. 21 abilities were buffed in damage, later 6 of those were reverted to original damage values. The other 15 are still using the buffed damage values.
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satanlol
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Re: 3 years of patch notes from a destruction warband perspective

Post#9 » Fri May 21, 2021 9:05 am

dalen wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 8:05 am
satanlol wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 11:07 pm 28/3 - 2020 (viewtopic.php?f=42&t=36853)
Rework of the Marauder. Major damage buff to Marauder with the cost of their efficient morale drain. The damage components get reverted in a future patch while the morale nerf stays.
Well, not really correct. 21 abilities were buffed in damage, later 6 of those were reverted to original damage values. The other 15 are still using the buffed damage values.
I’ve edited the post, thanks for the feedback.
The reverted abilities were all in the Path of Monstrosity tree, the AoE tree. The only AoE ability that kept the buffed formula is Wave of Terror.

satanlol
Posts: 32

Re: 3 years of patch notes from a destruction warband perspective

Post#10 » Fri May 21, 2021 10:08 am

agemennon675 wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 12:10 am Just wanted to point out that the patch where marauder skills got buffed across almost all abilities you said that the dmg buff was reverted but only a few skills like wrecking ball got tuned down to match WL level other buffs still stayed
Thanks, I've edited the post. The damage abilities in the Path of Monstro tree got tuned down/reverted. These were 80% of the Marauders rotation.

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