A cheat, or not a cheat...

[Wraithedge]

… that is the question.
Whether 'tis nobler in the Zone to suffer
The spells and arrows of outrageous combat,
Or to log out and xrealm, embedding in their number
And by sabotaging, end them: to ruin, to lol;

High Pass. The one with Ogrund's Tavern.

Order is gathered for the siege, we line up at the castle, the ram is knocking on the door, oil is spilling, spells are flying… suddenly the ram goes rabbiting off past our lines, past the healers back over the hill and straight into a mass of Orcs who were waiting right there for it. And then they ate it

It seems a Kotbs with an eponymous name was actually an xrealmer intent on sabotaging the siege for Destro.

I have to say that I am not sure why that was necessary, Destro had many times our number. They could have shucked us out of the keep like a lazy oyster at any time or just murdered us at the walls..

They spent the next few hours mowing us down, waiting for us to regroup and then mowing us down again.

Afterward, there was a lot of talk about how Destro cheats all the time. It was some pretty ugly salt as if this kind of thing was a common occurrence.

So, I have questions…

If this the way this is supposed to go? Is this the meta?

I am assuming not. I am guessing that xrealming over to spawn a key war machine just so you can ruin the other side’s attempt at capturing the zone is a bad thing on par with cheating.

And if that is the case, I am interested in what is going to be done.

My guess, again, is nothing but I could be wrong.

If I remember the temperament of the team from community engagement on up, they were never terribly shy about expressing themselves directly and with adventuresome language.

So it seems like silence on the matter isn’t “we are working on it in the background but can’t talk about it.”

I think silence means it IS the way the game is played. Indeed it is so effective and efficient, it is the only way the game can be played.

I don’t think I could bring myself to be the kind of person who does a thing like that, but clearly there are people who lack even my own meager standards.

So if xrealm sabotage is an acceptable tactic, I guess that is a good thing to know and keep handy.

[don775]

I think its dirty but fair, spies are a usual thing Order just lack any order and most vetran players on destro side. they coordinated that very well trapping us between and afterwards at tavern, its easier to sabotage a ram other than beating a destro horde tho.. jus saying.

*sabotaging scenarios isnt.

[Wraithedge]

I suppose I see a difference between legitimate tactics like troop placement, echelons, feints, defeat in detail, attrition and running battles and exploitation of things that you are not supposed to be able to do but you really can here because accounts are free and there just isn’t the structure to stop you.

Its like saying DDOS is a legitimate way to clear a zone for easy box runs or fighting from an untargetable position inside terrain is just fine.

In truth, its an exploit.

And exploits become the administration's purview because they threaten the stability of the whole system.

I mean, unless top thinks they don’t.

If the decision is made that fighting from an untargetable position is fine and DDOSing down zones is okay then that’s that. Its not MY server, I’m just testing it.

And when I find exploits and vulnerabilities that threaten either the game experience of other players or the RVR system as a whole then I bring them up.

What happens after that isn’t up to me.

[Sulorie]

You said they farmed you over and over. If this is the case, what was the purpose of the ram anyway? Would you be able to siege with those odds?

[Wraithedge]

Yeah, they entirely overwhelmed us and that’s a totally legit situation. No way we could have held that keep. We couldn’t even take the Tavern from them and we tried hard for a long time.

Which is why it seems like such a perplexing move to sneak-theif the ram. I mean they could have just walked up and killed it and us with those numbers.

But then maybe they weren’t all in the zone at that point. Maybe those Freebootaz were the only ones around when the ram got xrealmed.

Yeah, I don’t mind getting beat up. They had more fight than we did. We got to try. We took our swing more than once and coming up short is the way it goes sometimes.

Stuff like xrealming the only thing that can get through the door of the keep is less legit. There is no way to deal with that because its not part of the game.. Too much of that and people start wondering why they bother showing up.

EDIT - Herp-a-derp, I didn't answer your question. The siege seemed perfectly normal and we were doing great up to the point where the ram got xrealmed. It was after that that the hills turned red with destro.

We were on track to pop the door and push the inner keep, some harassment from the walls but nothing too bad. some Orks in the back but we kept them at bay without trouble. Then the Ram gets xrealmed, then the world goes Destro and we all get put on milk cartons.

[GRUSZKA]

There was no xrelaming nor anything like that.

I was fighting alongside Kotbs many, many times. He is often leading Order forces and sometimes trying to coordinate efforts of the whole zone, when PUGs are in disarray.

Here as mentioned many times, Order was highly 'overwhelmed' by Destro. They were just waiting for Outer Door to go down, to come on us from Walls and from Behind to smash Order in no time.

Kotbs decision was to stop siege to not give free bags to Destro for Keep Defense.
And I think it was a right decision at the time.

No reason for any accusation towards Kotbs. Just think about it and you will understand.

[Aethilmar]

In the past, deliberately sabotaging siege efforts by yanking the ram and such were supposedly considered offenses for which you could be punished (multi-day suspension). I have no idea if that is still the case or, even if it is the rule, would they bother to enforce it these days.

That said, most ram "sabotage" in my experience is either driver error or game glitch.

It could also, straight up, be a difference of opinion on whether or not to continue the siege especially if it is obvious you aren't going to win. Since knocking down an outer door gives a free bag roll there are many times when one side *should* pull the ram but just don't.

Anyway, use to be you didn't necessarily need a ram to break down a door but then they decided to make it an exploitable single point of failure so ...

[Wraithedge]

There was no xrelaming nor anything like that.

I was fighting alongside Kotbs many, many times. He is often leading Order forces and sometimes trying to coordinate efforts of the whole zone, when PUGs are in disarray.

Here as mentioned many times, Order was highly 'overwhelmed' by Destro. They were just waiting for Outer Door to go down, to come on us from Walls and from Behind to smash Order in no time.

Kotbs decision was to stop siege to not give free bags to Destro for Keep Defense.
And I think it was a right decision at the time.

No reason for any accusation towards Kotbs. Just think about it and you will understand.

Well that’s certainly a different turn of the tale and it does answer the nagging portions of the equation albeit in a vividly scummy fashion.

I do note your post count. But lets agree that’s neither here nor there.

I think it is an important point out that I wasn’t accusing anyone, I didn’t even name anyone. I was questioning the act itself.

But you are saying I am mistaken about the nature of that act and that’s fair. I am not above being corrected.

I also have to point out that instead of giving Destro free bags, he gave them US, over and over and over. He didn’t stop the siege, he betrayed everyone who showed up there to try their best with a faithless and cowardly act of submission on behalf of the entire faction present.

I can accept your account of things and I won’t mention xrealming again in relation to this event, I was clearly in error about that point.

The question is answered then:
Not a cheat.
Not a matter for higher consideration.
In-game actions with in-game solutions.

But a deeply disreputable betrayal of trust. Perhaps not the best option for a game with such a limited community where everyone can clearly remember who betrayed the entire zone that day.

Just a game? Yeah, that’s true.

That, also, is true.

[Aethilmar]

Didn't name anyone eh ...

It seems a Kotbs with an eponymous name was actually an xrealmer intent on sabotaging the siege for Destro.

[Wraithedge]

Didn't name anyone eh ...

It seems a Kotbs with an eponymous name was actually an xrealmer intent on sabotaging the siege for Destro.

Mea Culpa.