What about contribution for contributing

[tjalfe]

I play EU Order for 6 months and got a suggestion - give renown, exp and even crests to people putting up a good fight and dying in the lake, it should be a small amount compared to the winner(s), but enough to incentive people to give it a try.

Reason: daily i see order pulling from fight they think they can’t win, now it would be fun also to make a dent in the zerg and the zerg would have something to kill.

Now let the mansplaining begin

[Aethilmar]

You are about to have a bunch of people tell you that you have to "earn" your rewards and we shouldn't be handing out "participation trophies".

But, yeah, I agree with you. You can't have a PvP game without an opponent and if you don't give the losing side sufficient rewards for their efforts they stop trying.

The devs here have been so hyper-focused on only making sure you get rewarded for putting in effort that they have made "winning" by far the most rewarding activity. Ironically, by emphasizing "winning" over "contributing" they have made it such that those who don't contribute much i.e. zerg surfers get far more rewards than folks who put in much more effort in a losing cause.

[Shogun4138]

When there is a call to defend or attack a keep, if I have not been in zone, I don't go. Zero rewards unless you've been there. Its that simple, ill stay in the zone I've got contribution in.

[BluIzLucky]

Just to clarify, you want contribution for damage, heal and protection even when you don't kill anything?

Because you do get contribution from those when you get kills.

Not sure how it works but with AAO I think you already get a contribution boost/drain (from +-inf%), so even a few kills can go a long way.
If it's not that way, that could be another to achieve what you suggest.

[sharpblader]

This post is an example of a potential underlying issue in the game.

The prevalent reward system might not incentivize enough for proper team fights for which the game has been balanced around. The comparative rewards gained by the losers are abysmal and more often than not, completely dissuade losing players from trying to fight against the zerging faction. That is why the keep defense roll was one of the greatest changes imo, effectively removing intentional throws to get to Fort and Cities and properly rewarding defenders who put in the effort. But the amount of loser rewards is still not worth it to ease out one sided zerging. For example, keep attackers get nothing for attacking a successfully defended keep. This potentially becomes a que for 'x-realming'.

But the core question for fight contribution is:

Hypothetically, in RvR, if equally skilled and balanced WBs fight each other, spending a lot of time fighting for objectives but getting minimal kills against each other, will the contribution of each of their members be at par with a player who ran say 4 boxes in less than half the time? If not, then head on RvR fights might not be worth it from a contribution perspective. Hence, what is rewarding is completely annihilating your opponent with sheer numbers to rack up kills.

At the same time, we should not be handing out rewards for people who are mindlessly throwing out heals, damage and protection, for WBs will just focus on charging each other and not on zone objectives that would lead to locks.

The balance between the two is important. Currently, I feel the balance is being relatively met but at the expense of fun.

We need to make balanced team fights fun. Through rewards and/or lower TTK.

[BluIzLucky]

I don't get why people like the defend ticks, it gives you no crests unless you get a bag and seems to reset your zone contribution, which means lower bonus roll and fewer crests from the eventual zone lock. Only really beneficial for 5* stalemate-locked zones, where you have time to build contributions multiple times and even then you could have gone to another zone instead.

It is nice that it reduced throwing but at the same time people don't want to siege now unless they have clear advantage, which just means the few times throws might have happened before, now is overwhelmingly replaced by just getting zerged with no chance.

[Fenris78]

I don't get why people like the defend ticks, it gives you no crests unless you get a bag and seems to reset your zone contribution, which means lower bonus roll and fewer crests from the eventual zone lock. Only really beneficial for 5* stalemate-locked zones, where you have time to build contributions multiple times and even then you could have gone to another zone instead.

I got this happening to me yesterday with Praag defense ; fought in zone, defended keep = 15k renown, white bag, nothing else.
Gone to other zones, logged off for lunch, logged back an hour later, Order was already killing Destru Lord in Praag after a successful counter-siege.
Got no zonelock bag roll (wich makes sense since contrib is reset), but no crests for lock, despite having fought for hours before the first siege defense.

For people like me that are still gearing AND already 80+, I'll rather getting crests on defense than renown.
While I agree renown for defense is very good for everyone under 80, it somehow harm all other players that only need crests.

I wont cry over 20-30 war crests anyway, but I think defense ticks, if they are meant to get everyone a bag roll, should work exactly like a zone lock : giving less renown, but appropriate crests + bag roll, THEN reseting contrib on zone.
It will be more beneficial to 100% of the winning side, at least.

[Lion1986]

we can give participation to some participation, so the participation can have partecipation aswell!

[tjalfe]

Just to clarify, you want contribution for damage, heal and protection even when you don't kill anything?

Because you do get contribution from those when you get kills.

Not sure how it works but with AAO I think you already get a contribution boost/drain (from +-inf%), so even a few kills can go a long way.
If it's not that way, that could be another to achieve what you suggest.

Yes, to get more ppl fighting and less ppl runnin. I have no idea it it would work but I do see a tendency of ppl playing for rewards.