New LOTD balance system - proposal

[Ninjagon]

Has anyone got numbers from the start of LOTD last night? Usually its pretty balanced (i.e full both sides). There was a queue on destro as some of our wb didnt get in. Was there a queue on order?

As to why order lose, if you zerg all week in a skill free blob and bring warbands with 2 healers and dps tanks in them you will lose when faced with even numbers. If you give up after 1 fight and leave the zone those that remain will get farmed. If you spend 10 mins grouping up and lose bos you will lose.
Pretty much the same story for every lotd and no different queuing mechanism would make any difference.

There was no queue to the LOTD on the Order side. People with 2 or even zero resources still get in the LOTD fight on the Order side.
On the other hand I have to admit, that I do not have any "premium special information" about real population numbers at the very start of the LOTD or after that.
Yes, after first or second wipe, an unknown percentage of players are leaving the zone - this has no solution and has nothing to do with the topic.
Learn to play issue is off topic here too. Please do not teach others how they should play to win LOTD.
If one side do not want equal player-base in LOTD, that probably means that they just wants to farm less populated ones.

[BluIzLucky]

The suggestions here aren't to take away from destro playing well, but if any game mode has a +90% winrate for one side (I haven't tracked the actual numbers, but that's my rough guess), that indicates a problem somewhere.

The charm and usefulness of LotD will eventually wear off (and probably has for alot already looking at the last one)...
so unless we want to end up like forts with 120 vs 12, either the community fix it (e.g. superior destro players log order and show Order how it's done) or the devs can take some steps to ensure that all things are systemically equal and when they are not (like 160 vs 200) have a system in place to compensate when they are not (reward those that show up and stay).

Again if one realm had a +90% winrate in city, it should be looked at even if the conclusion is one side is just worse and refusing to adapt.

[Absinth]

There is nothing bad if the better organized or just stronger side wins.
But i think there is population disproportion from the very start of the LOTD.

Is there a queue after lotd starts on order? On destro there is usually like 13 people queue and i assumed the same about order.
Also from what it seems like, people decided to go for the lowest resistance route and if they have to try their best after 3h mindless blobbing fights they would just rather leave LoTD and go take a keep (Players vs Doors, lets goo) and the same attaches to city and probably would to anything more instance based (stuff like that happens on forts also but more rarely)

[wonshot]

Back when the last LOTD attendance numbers were up for debate it wasnt exact as bad as the forum and OP made it out to be.
It was mostly poor results and pugs leaving that made it imballaned, which in turn lead to destro winrate and snowball effect.
https://imgur.com/a/5umgGtp

[Absinth]

The suggestions here aren't to take away from destro playing well, but if any game mode has a +90% winrate for one side (I haven't tracked the actual numbers, but that's my rough guess), that indicates a problem somewhere.

The charm and usefulness of LotD will eventually wear off (and probably has for alot already looking at the last one)...
so unless we want to end up like forts with 120 vs 12, either the community fix it (e.g. superior destro players log order and show Order how it's done) or the devs can take some steps to ensure that all things are systemically equal and when they are not (like 160 vs 200) have a system in place to compensate when they are not (reward those that show up and stay).

Again if one realm had a +90% winrate in city, it should be looked at even if the conclusion is one side is just worse and refusing to adapt.

The only way you can make it cater (NOT BALANCING!) to order would be removing the blobbing debuff and that would already kill LoTD ofc if there is people difference that should be changed but i assume the queue stays on order after the lotd starts just like on destro. But you will NEVER fix population when one side just decides to leave the LoTD after first two fights and last LoTD was a prime example of order giving up when their mindless blobbing did not work because they got flanked in LoTD and farmed.

Reason why order dies and loses have been explained multiple times, order loses initial blob fight because destro flanks them, some people leave and that starts the snowball, morales of people are low and people with lower mental stability want to get out, another fight another loss because order triest to blob in middle of desert, amount of people leaving increases and then you end with imbalance, especially when 2 organised order wbs vanish out of blue from LoTD because they decided to just dip.

[Garamore]

If one side do not want equal player-base in LOTD, that probably means that they just wants to farm less populated ones.

I actually wish you had more people in than we do. Maybe give order an extra 20% or so till they get a win.

And surely changing the way order play is key to it. You could get it to even numbers or even 20% more for order and you would still lose if you carry on the way its being played.

[BluIzLucky]

The suggestions here aren't to take away from destro playing well, but if any game mode has a +90% winrate for one side (I haven't tracked the actual numbers, but that's my rough guess), that indicates a problem somewhere.

The charm and usefulness of LotD will eventually wear off (and probably has for alot already looking at the last one)...
so unless we want to end up like forts with 120 vs 12, either the community fix it (e.g. superior destro players log order and show Order how it's done) or the devs can take some steps to ensure that all things are systemically equal and when they are not (like 160 vs 200) have a system in place to compensate when they are not (reward those that show up and stay).

Again if one realm had a +90% winrate in city, it should be looked at even if the conclusion is one side is just worse and refusing to adapt.

The only way you can make it cater (NOT BALANCING!) to order would be removing the blobbing debuff and that would already kill LoTD ofc if there is people difference that should be changed but i assume the queue stays on order after the lotd starts just like on destro. But you will NEVER fix population when one side just decides to leave the LoTD after first two fights and last LoTD was a prime example of order giving up when their mindless blobbing did not work because they got flanked in LoTD and farmed.

Reason why order dies and loses have been explained multiple times, order loses initial blob fight because destro flanks them, some people leave and that starts the snowball, morales of people are low and people with lower mental stability want to get out, another fight another loss because order triest to blob in middle of desert, amount of people leaving increases and then you end with imbalance, especially when 2 organised order wbs vanish out of blue from LoTD because they decided to just dip.

Along with OPs suggestion, I gave 3 other options here viewtopic.php?t=49322&start=20#p535024, none of which improves the Order blob strat.
So that's 4 and I'm sure there's more.. and they all help both sides when they are the underdog

[Absinth]

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Along with OPs suggestion, I gave 3 other options here viewtopic.php?t=49322&start=20#p535024, none of which improves the Order blob strat.
So that's 4 and I'm sure there's more.. and they all help both sides when they are the underdog

Okay soo lets break down your suggestions

1) AAO modifier on points capping - This one should be obvious to every person who was trying to win LoTD as underdog. If you give more points from caps to the smaller side you will notice that magically all of the people vanish (because they focus on BO's and not fightin) and LoTD turns into PVE where 3 warbands worth of either side fights with 6mans focused on back capping and capping stuff. You can even right now win LoTD 2.5k points behind if you focus on PVE, now imagine what happens when you have 2x more points due to aao.

2) RVR aao onto the LoTD - Great maybe do the same in city, like it wont change a lot, the reason why aao is in orvr is because its dynamic, you dont have a cap and when you are underdog in LoTD then only benefit from AAO is either RR that you get from using cannons at spawn or RR that you get from caps (and because every time you have smaller amount of people its near wc gameplay there will not be a lot of wc capping)

3) rework of skeletons - Just for your information while their logic could use some improvement (not spawning one at loosing side when there is none on the winning side or maybe making sure that they dont bug and they are able to cap the bo's.) it still is quite hard punishment for winning side when they sit at warcamp trying to farm order, seen 2 NA LoTD where the caps on map flipped due to patrols and order/destro trying to warcamp farm. On EU people just leave the LoTD when they start loosing

about the dynamic cap, i think it should be just the amount of the people from less populated queue. Or it should be kept as it is.

[Martok]

“My side is more skilled and better looking...

It is always more important to look good.

[Martok]

I mean WHY TAKE THE BEST THING ABOUT LOTD AWAY WHICH WAS INVADING TOMBS/TOVL OR DEFENDING THEM AND BEING INVADED.

Not sure if you are being serious or sarcastic here, however in case it is the former you articulate the incorrect point of view. Nothing has been taken away, there are simply parts of Land Of The Dead which have yet to be implemented.

I spoke at great length about this general topic during the most recent Realm Watch episode, therefore I will not repeat all of my commentary here. The VOD is up if anyone is interested.

What I will say is, in regard to TVOL and the other instances, just be patient and give it time. The Devs will get to it. Screaming at them about it won't help.