Ironbreaker settings and balancing

[xablau55]

Hello guys, i'm comming here to discuss about IB and their strenghts and weakness. After many hours playing as a IB, SM, BG and BO tank and 2h builds and playstyles, I noticed something about Ironbreaker that makes Ironbreaker stays far behind other tanks in terms of gameplay just because one thing: Rising Anger (tactic)
The duty of using this to reach good results today let the ironbreaker start the race too late and lost performance in game, mainly today with fast fights and much damage rolling all over.

My suggestion is to make the IB work the same as the BG, grow the grudge without depending on tactics, just hitting and being hit, and making the gameplay more fluid and open a slot to use another more important tactic. Remembering that: the nerf in the GCD made the IB very locked and with less potential.

Please, take attention to this, IB só cool and ppl are letting him out because he dont have same potential like others, mainly on fluids e gameplay.

P.s: soorry about my english im learning.

[lemao]

You should never use that tactic, use dwarfen riposte tactic, it gives you 30 grudge on parry, so you build it up pretty fast.

[xablau55]

You should never use that tactic, use dwarfen riposte tactic, it gives you 30 grudge on parry, so you build it up pretty fast.

Same problem, i need a tactic to improve my mechanic, but the BG doesnt need it. And with that one, we need to PARRY, when i fight with one warband of sorcerers? And squigs, etc...

[lemao]

its no problem to proc this tactic , because it procs even if you parry guard damage, so perma.

[Ruin]

its no problem to proc this tactic , because it procs even if you parry guard damage, so perma.

Guard can't be used out side of party. Are you "discriminating " against solo players, what if they are not focused at the start of fight?

[Lileldys]

its no problem to proc this tactic , because it procs even if you parry guard damage, so perma.

Guard can't be used out side of party. Are you "discriminating " against solo players, what if they are not focused at the start of fight?

Join a group then

[lemao]

its no problem to proc this tactic , because it procs even if you parry guard damage, so perma.

Guard can't be used out side of party. Are you "discriminating " against solo players, what if they are not focused at the start of fight?

Yes, i am. With how much aoe is flying around, you will get hit instandly and build up your grudge super fast.

[GONDOR]

You should never use that tactic, use dwarfen riposte tactic, it gives you 30 grudge on parry, so you build it up pretty fast.

Wrong. Rising Anger is a fine tactic and has advantages over Dwarven Riposte.

Join a group then

Literally just proves his point and solves nothing.



This topic has been brought up from this angle in the past, and wanting to copy Black Guard won't get any meaningful change, since the design isn't to clone.

The issue (imo) comes from the difference in playstyle and trading: An IB has to be hit, versus doing the hitting. Seems pretty meaningless, but it can get quite deep with a long string of differences that affect agency, playstyle, and resourcing.

At a really high level;
BG trades AP to hit someone - an act that the player is in direct control of.
IB trades HP when being hit - something that you, as the IB, can't control.

You can make efforts to use your ability and skill to attack people - a decision that is wholly yours, but you can't force people to attack you. No matter what you do, that's still their choice. If someone is running away, they aren't generating grudge for you.

You can argue about aoe fluff damage etc., but that also means you're limiting the scope of use and starting to narrow down viable scenarios and shift goalposts to try to fit a narrative. The bottom line is that the game doesn't consist of just large fights, and there are situations where there isn't going to be a constant stream of fluff damage. It also exacerbates trading HP to fluff chip to get a resource as it scales poorly.

The best solution I could come up with was placing Grudge gen on a curve like Oathfriend. The point of effectiveness for IB is past 50 grudge, so speeding up how to get there would make things feel much better. I just stopped playing seriously before actually doing the numbers to put a case together.

[Lime]

I would do some light tank re balancing personally. Make the non knight/chosen tanks buffs more reliable and easier to keep up.

Making buffs/debuffs more impactful/longer duration/affect the group with better uptime and cast faster.

Iron Breaker:

Buff and debuff skills that do no damage like oathbound, runic shield, ancestor's fury, Watch an' leanr take half a global instead of a full global.

Vengeful Strike toughness made group buff, Inspiring attack str buff made group buff, increase duration to 40 seconds.

Overall: Less time spent spending grudges and more time attacking. Buffs are also more impactful as str/toughness now affects group.

Black Guard:

Feeding on weakness toughness buff is now group buff 40 second duration.

Brutal Smash Strength buff now group buff and 40 second duration.

Furious howl, Crush the weak, Shield of Rage, elite training, and Force of Fury debuffs and utility now cast in half a global, damage reduced.

Overall: Less time spent applying debuffs and utility, more time to attack and guard and buffs are more useful to group play.

Black Orc:

Savin me Hide toughness buff now lasts 40 seconds and is a group buff.
Follow my lead now group buff with 40 second duration

SM: Eagle's Flight now increases toughness of the group for 30/40 seconds.