Basic Consensus For SW Fixes?

[Deadpoet]

Do you realize you’re basically asking for the class to be reverted to the way it was before the most recent round of significant changes

Incorrect. There were many more changes in the latest round of changes, some of them actually quite good. So I'm not asking for the class to be reverted to the way it was. More on that later.

Personally I’d rather it NOT have the damage of say a BW

I don't know where you get this from. I've been rereading what I wrote and NOWHERE do I even suggest ANY dmg boost, let alone make SW on par with BW damagewise.

make it medium armor at base

Now this is something I'm sure the devs wouldn't do. Devs have been known to revert their own changes, but I've never seen devs make such a profound alteration of a basic archetype feature as armor type. rdps are light armor, mdps are medium, tanks are heavy armor. Also, no reason for such a radical suggestion, especially when you can turn your light armor elf into a medium armor one just pressing one key when things get close and personal with destro.

instead of asking for “the good old days”, look at the current shortcomings

"The good old days" must be a joke, right? Do you realize every SW player who's played long enough knows that things were in a really bad shape in the "good old days", probably worse than we are right now? Many improvements have been made since the "good old days". The only thing that was clearly powerful in the good old days was probably that morale 100% dmg feature that made possible some very situational ridiculous burst from time to time. But it was more of a stopgap than a godsend, and it brought lots of hate for the class.

Looking at the class shortcomings is what we are doing here. Not anything radical or freakish, but things that have been known to work, and could be adressed.

1- Believe it or not, I haven't written this post with any unrealistic expectation of convincing the devs with this single specific post. They are busy in this game that they develop for us without being paid , and I imagine they must have a thousand things to work on, and even if they could consider it, maybe they wouldn't have the time or the inclination to act accordingly. This was more adressed to SW players who read this forum, in the hope that they would contribute to refine these ideas. This post was to be a step in the direction of addressing the issues, but I see this as a long process that would take many more posters to create the climate and the conviction where something could be achieved. An attempt at starting to establish a basic consensus.

2- I am not writing this post with some ideas I have just come up with, on an individual level. This post is an attempt to gather and sum up the most recurrent observations about the class current shortcomings I have read ingame and in this forum for quite some time now. Lately I have been in conversations in advice chat for example, with many diferent players intyerested in this topic, about what it would take to make SW experience more fluid and satisfactory. I have found that most of them recognize the good changes and appreciate the improvements in the latest round of changes, but some adjustments could be made, and it turns out that many ppl agree on this three ideas.

[Deadpoet]

[/quote]


No offence. That are only the points that come to my mind while reading your post. Maybe you´re right i don´t really know. Just think about it a bit, including what you could/would offer to the enemy bow class for your changes. Especially in view of the fact that this class is very dependent on its pet, which is known to be pretty useless in ORvR and dies quickly (at least that's what the WL players say).
[/quote]

In all honesty, I have never played SH and I'm not aware of the class' current situation. Your post has made me think maybe SH could use some adjustments too. I appreciate the sensible and not-overreacting tone of your post, this is always welcome. My post, however, was meant to address SW issues only. I think your points could be useful in a post about Squig Herder current state.

[Butzinjo]

1 – EXTEND SHADOW STING’S RANGE TO 100 FT. - You know that Broadhead Arrow and Spiral-fletched Arrow already have more range than Yer bleedin and Run 'n shoot, right? Tooltip-dmg is higher here and there

2 – MAKE EYE SHOT CASTABLE ON THE MOVE IN SKIRMISH STANCE. - if you want to cast it on the move, it must only have a range of 65ft and only last 2 seconds, otherwise it would be too OP, at least that's what the orders and devs say.

3- EXTEND AoE ABILITIES TO 80ft. - Imagine you have to go into close combat with your BOW CLASS to do AoE

No offence. That are only the points that come to my mind while reading your post. Maybe you´re right i don´t really know. Just think about it a bit, including what you could/would offer to the enemy bow class for your changes. Especially in view of the fact that this class is very dependent on its pet, which is known to be pretty useless in ORvR and dies quickly (at least that's what the WL players say).

You mean the class that is widely considered in a decent spot because it can actually use its K/D on the move, and boost its range for all skills with pet, It's skills aren't tied to stances, Better tactic choices. Buffed fester bomb with an added execute. Can boost its movement speed without a tactic slot.

SH main pets are ranged and WL pets are melee, of course theres going to be pet issues for WL in blob vs blob.

Sorry, I think that came across wrong. I'm not saying SH is bad. I'm just saying that the demands made have no "negative" sides. SH KD used to be 3 sec but that was too OP for "cast on the move" even if the range is only 65ft. And now the requirement is to introduce that for SW, even with more range. And yes, SH can increase its range for "all" abilities with a range pet, brings the KD to 80ft as long as the pet is alive... It's probably up to me, but in the few cases in which I still play SH, the pet is alive not really long (note: I'm talking about ORvR). But that doesn't change the fact that all quick shootin abilities consistently have a range of 65ft.

The general "recommendation" for SH is Melee for AoE WITHOUT pet, hence the reference to WL . And here I have (attention me) my biggest problem, I lvl a bow class with pet and then play a melee-aoe-dps without pet in WB... hmpf.

As for poison arrer and festering arrow, I wish my poison arrer could do the numbers that festering arrow hit me with. But maybe that's up to me again.

What I really wanted to point out is not just to see what I want, but to think about/check what the others have or had. I'm just on the receiving end and from there I'd say SW fits as is. But I also don't rule out that I'm wrong here, if only because I play 98% destro. Fortunately, the mirror classes cannot be compared 1 to 1, but at least parallels can be drawn.

[Farrul]

Sorry, I think that came across wrong. I'm not saying SH is bad. I'm just saying that the demands made have no "negative" sides. SH KD used to be 3 sec but that was too OP for "cast on the move" even if the range is only 65ft. And now the requirement is to introduce that for SW, even with more range. And yes, SH can increase its range for "all" abilities with a range pet, brings the KD to 80ft as long as the pet is alive... It's probably up to me, but in the few cases in which I still play SH, the pet is alive not really long (note: I'm talking about ORvR). But that doesn't change the fact that all quick shootin abilities consistently have a range of 65ft.

SW ''bow'' has a poor ranged tool-kit for survivability in comparison to SH 'bow', hence even if SW got a 100ft on the move KD it would still be inferior to SH 'Bow'.

To list the most obvious SH tool advantages : ranged (150ft?) disarm, aoe knockback, 2 reliable ways to increase movement speed by 30% and the SW mirror stuff added on top of that creates a strong tool-kit for kiting and ranged survivability, what do you pay for it? A bit less timestamp burst damage in comparison every now and then when SW Von is up. Sorry but its not even close.

As for poison arrer and festering arrow, I wish my poison arrer could do the numbers that festering arrow hit me with.

Poison arrer already have a better tactic than the Festering arrow mirror, it adds an execution. Festering will due to Von+ Steady aim add a bit more rotation burst with CDs up but even that doesn't happen without a cost, an AP starved SW. Again due to the superior survivability tool-kit of the SH Posion Arrer will have more uptime and produce more damage over time, i'm not even considering the execution part of poison arrer. Then add Pet dps to the equation.

As for your original point regarding pet survivability, i do not play SH but i do think all melee pets deserve to be viable in rvr, WL as well as SH when played in melee aoe. Ranged pets are not exposed like melee pets and from my observations their survivability seems fine.

[fontin]

yeah fix this

[Farrul]

^^
Not even that impressive , i'm sure i have a screenshot somewhere with a higher number on some futile strike-less victim roaming around the lakes

4/10 derailment attempt.

P.S. FA is not even that good, considering you'll need 2 tactics to make it viable in the first place and then steady aim draining your AP away + VoN.

[Lileldys]

3.5k isn't that impressive, as you can get way higher than that with a BW/Sorc nuke

Most players are rocking 7-9k wounds now, not even 50% on an unguarded target. What are you stacking on top of that with SW? Fell The Weak? A tick of Broadhead Arrow? If you're 50% HP it's not going to hit hard.

[Ashoris]

I wouldn't. Would you?

Originally rKD was a 65ft skill to match most skirmish skills. It was moved to scout, got increased range with the drawback of being static. You want to make it more mobile again but keep the range, this doesn't seem balanced to me for such a powerful skill.

but you also had a tactic slotted pushing skirmish range to 98 feet ... and in the current state of CHoppa and mara pull 65 feet could also be melee range :p

[Sulorie]

but you also had a tactic slotted pushing skirmish range to 98 feet ... and in the current state of CHoppa and mara pull 65 feet could also be melee range :p

This is true but back then they had less dmg enhancing tactics and skills too - aside from M2. Both classes got their range reduced, while their dmg was increased. We want to roll it all back or only the "bad" things?

[dtjror]

Do you realize you’re basically asking for the class to be reverted to the way it was before the most recent round of significant changes

Incorrect. There were many more changes in the latest round of changes, some of them actually quite good. So I'm not asking for the class to be reverted to the way it was.

Your 3 original suggestion were - 1) SS 100ft, 2) ES in Skirmish and castable on the move, and 3) AOE 80ft. SS used to be 100 ft, they changed that. ES used to be Skirmish and castable on the move, they changed that. Powerful Draw used to increase Skirmish abilities range. They changed that. How is what you’re suggesting not “reversionist” thinking?

Look, it ain’t too hard to figure out where the dev’s heads are on this - Scout is supposed to be “nuke” tree, Assault obviously the, uh, assault tree, and Skirmish the AOE tree. Problem is, other then Assault at ridiculously high RR and gear levels, it doesn’t have the damage to compete with other rDPS classes, but it’s survivability sucks (due largely to lack of tools, i.e., as compared to SH).

So what’s it gonna be? Boost damage so it’s a BW with a bow, or add survivability to compensate for the lower damage? Might as well just ask for it to get everything SH has but done in such a way that no pet.