Recent Topics

Ads

Basic Consensus For SW Fixes?

We want to hear your thoughts and ideas.

Moderators: Developer, Community Management, Management

Forum rules
Before posting on this forum, be sure to read the Terms of Use

Structured class balance suggestions belong in the Balance Proposal subforum. Class-related discussion in this section are considered as ongoing debates and ARE NOT reviewed for balance changes.
User avatar
Deadpoet
Posts: 305

Basic Consensus For SW Fixes?

Post#1 » Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:38 pm

After reading the recent contributions to the topic of addressing the shortcomings and inadequacies of the shadow warrior class and seeing that we seem to agree on some basic ideas, I though that maybe some consensus could be achieved. I’m curious to know whether any SW players would stand behind these very basic suggestions:

1 – EXTEND SHADOW STING’S RANGE TO 100 FT.

Reasoning: Shadow Sting’s current range excludes it from any viable Scout stance rotation. Imagine the sniper having to climb down from his eyrie or keep battlements and run towards the target, shoot to apply heal debuff, and then run back to safe-ish distance again.

2 – MAKE EYE SHOT CASTABLE ON THE MOVE IN SKIRMISH STANCE.

Reasoning: Eye Shot not being able to be cast on the move is a crushing blow to skirmish ST build, one of the most fun and fluid playstyles in this game, and to the survivability of the SW in general, and it doesn’t make any sense as the whole idea and original design of skirmish stance was precisely Not-having-to-stop to cast.
Note: (I understand that when this ability was moved to scout tree it maybe seemed logical to make it a stationary ability. But the old concept was a sound one, namely that for some abilities to be cast on the move you had to switch to skirmish. Thus, switching to skirmish should make it castable on the move while it remains a stationary ability in scout stance. Conversely, to be fair and just, takedown should only be castable on the move when in skirmish.)

3- EXTEND AoE ABILITIES TO 80ft.
Reasoning: it has been repeatedly pointed out that 65ft range isn’t a viable option in many pvp contexts. The other ranged classes have 80ft for their AoE or extendable from 65ft. I think we all agree this change is vital.

Ads
Sulorie
Posts: 6753

Re: Basic Consensus For SW Fixes?

Post#2 » Wed Nov 02, 2022 7:35 pm

Deadpoet wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:38 pm
2 – MAKE EYE SHOT CASTABLE ON THE MOVE IN SKIRMISH STANCE.

Reasoning: Eye Shot not being able to be cast on the move is a crushing blow to skirmish ST build, one of the most fun and fluid playstyles in this game, and to the survivability of the SW in general, and it doesn’t make any sense as the whole idea and original design of skirmish stance was precisely Not-having-to-stop to cast.
Note: (I understand that when this ability was moved to scout tree it maybe seemed logical to make it a stationary ability. But the old concept was a sound one, namely that for some abilities to be cast on the move you had to switch to skirmish. Thus, switching to skirmish should make it castable on the move while it remains a stationary ability in scout stance. Conversely, to be fair and just, takedown should only be castable on the move when in skirmish.)
Would you reduce range of Eye Shot in skirmish stance to 65ft?
Dying is no option.

User avatar
Deadpoet
Posts: 305

Re: Basic Consensus For SW Fixes?

Post#3 » Wed Nov 02, 2022 8:37 pm

I wouldn't. Would you?

Sulorie
Posts: 6753

Re: Basic Consensus For SW Fixes?

Post#4 » Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:40 pm

Deadpoet wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 8:37 pm I wouldn't. Would you?
Originally rKD was a 65ft skill to match most skirmish skills. It was moved to scout, got increased range with the drawback of being static. You want to make it more mobile again but keep the range, this doesn't seem balanced to me for such a powerful skill.
Dying is no option.

User avatar
Deadpoet
Posts: 305

Re: Basic Consensus For SW Fixes?

Post#5 » Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:10 pm

Yep, I remember when it was a 65ft skill. I hadn't thought about the range of this specific ability. My proposal is focused on other aspects, but this specific issue is worth discussing, and you make a valid point.

1 - If I remember correctly (I could be wrong, honestly) skirmish skills could have their range increased with a tactic, Powerful Draw, even with the same name I think. So, originally rKD could have greater range (98ft I believe?). Right now many skirrmsh 65ft skills cannot have their range extended, and I and many like me see this as a problem.

2 - Eye Shot is now a Scout tree ability. Right now scout abilities don't have their range reduced when cast on skirmish, and neither can I think of a time when they were, although I could be wrong here too. That would be a strange feature indeed. I'm not saying that I'm opposed to it, mind you.

3- I see your point, and takedown is another example of a cc ability at 65ft. And yet I don't see Eye Shot as too OP if cast at a greater range than 65ft. BW's rKD is 100ft, on the move, zealot and runie stagger, which is arguably far more lethal in RvR contexts, arealso 100ft. 65ft for a squishie is sure death factoring server lag, destro pulls flying around, etc. I would consider 80ft, like I propose for other skirmish skills.

Sever1n
Posts: 127

Re: Basic Consensus For SW Fixes?

Post#6 » Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:57 am

All this suggestions are pointles if devs dont see a problem.

Avernus
Posts: 31

Re: Basic Consensus For SW Fixes?

Post#7 » Thu Nov 03, 2022 4:44 pm

Deadpoet wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:38 pm 1 – EXTEND SHADOW STING’S RANGE TO 100 FT.
2 – MAKE EYE SHOT CASTABLE ON THE MOVE IN SKIRMISH STANCE.
3- EXTEND AoE ABILITIES TO 80ft.
1. YES. With tactic or without it - it should be 100 ft (or 98 ft i don't care).
2. To be honest - want to see this ability back as it was - Skirmish (!) (not Scout!) skill which you can cast while moving. But i do think that your idea is much better thing than the current Eye Shot.
3. Make Lileath's arrow great again? It was a good skill for AoE and now you can't do a thing withot SM babysitting you with WW. And spiral arrow spam wasn't good before and isn't good now.

dtjror
Posts: 40

Re: Basic Consensus For SW Fixes?

Post#8 » Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:05 am

Do you realize you’re basically asking for the class to be reverted to the way it was before the most recent round of significant changes (sans the BHA stacking nerf, which was subsequent)? Yea, I’m sure the devs are gonna just undo what they recently did…

Does the class need some help? Yes. It doesn’t have the damage, ST or AOE, of the other rDPS classes, but it has just as poor survivability (apart from very high reknown, end-game gear aSW). Personally I’d rather it NOT have the damage of say a BW, since it’s a “hybrid” class, but then it should have better survivability (even so, a little damage boost would be good). There are two ways that can happen - active abilities or passive mitigation. I argue for passive mitigation (e.g., make it medium armor at base and some other related tweaks) because active abilities require more development time and resources.

So, instead of asking for “the good old days”, look at the current shortcomings and suggest things that seems to be within the framework the devs currently have in mind.

But yea, ain’t nothin gonna happen if the devs don’t care/don’t think it’s needed.

Ads
User avatar
Butzinjo
Posts: 35

Re: Basic Consensus For SW Fixes?

Post#9 » Fri Nov 04, 2022 7:25 am

Deadpoet wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:38 pm
1 – EXTEND SHADOW STING’S RANGE TO 100 FT. - You know that Broadhead Arrow and Spiral-fletched Arrow already have more range than Yer bleedin and Run 'n shoot, right? Tooltip-dmg is higher here and there

2 – MAKE EYE SHOT CASTABLE ON THE MOVE IN SKIRMISH STANCE. - if you want to cast it on the move, it must only have a range of 65ft and only last 2 seconds, otherwise it would be too OP, at least that's what the orders and devs say.

3- EXTEND AoE ABILITIES TO 80ft. - Imagine you have to go into close combat with your BOW CLASS to do AoE

No offence. That are only the points that come to my mind while reading your post. Maybe you´re right i don´t really know. Just think about it a bit, including what you could/would offer to the enemy bow class for your changes. Especially in view of the fact that this class is very dependent on its pet, which is known to be pretty useless in ORvR and dies quickly (at least that's what the WL players say).

User avatar
Lileldys
Posts: 666

Re: Basic Consensus For SW Fixes?

Post#10 » Fri Nov 04, 2022 8:05 am

Butzinjo wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 7:25 am
Deadpoet wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:38 pm
1 – EXTEND SHADOW STING’S RANGE TO 100 FT. - You know that Broadhead Arrow and Spiral-fletched Arrow already have more range than Yer bleedin and Run 'n shoot, right? Tooltip-dmg is higher here and there

2 – MAKE EYE SHOT CASTABLE ON THE MOVE IN SKIRMISH STANCE. - if you want to cast it on the move, it must only have a range of 65ft and only last 2 seconds, otherwise it would be too OP, at least that's what the orders and devs say.

3- EXTEND AoE ABILITIES TO 80ft. - Imagine you have to go into close combat with your BOW CLASS to do AoE

No offence. That are only the points that come to my mind while reading your post. Maybe you´re right i don´t really know. Just think about it a bit, including what you could/would offer to the enemy bow class for your changes. Especially in view of the fact that this class is very dependent on its pet, which is known to be pretty useless in ORvR and dies quickly (at least that's what the WL players say).
You mean the class that is widely considered in a decent spot because it can actually use its K/D on the move, and boost its range for all skills with pet, It's skills aren't tied to stances, Better tactic choices. Buffed fester bomb with an added execute. Can boost its movement speed without a tactic slot.

SH main pets are ranged and WL pets are melee, of course theres going to be pet issues for WL in blob vs blob.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest