Futility Strike vs Trivial blows

[Wdova]

What do You think is more viable at endgame PvP?
My gues is Trivial blows since even if you get Your chance to be crit is 0% dps classes can maintain around 40% crit chance anyway.

[lemao]

What do You think is more viable at endgame PvP?
My gues is Trivial blows since even if you get Your chance to be crit is 0% dps classes can maintain around 40% crit chance anyway.

Depends on what you are facing, if you only face classes who benefit from crit dmg tactics or mechanics it´s good for sure,
Also if you spec FS, you usually spec atleast 3 x FS on every archetype, on some even x4 which reduces your chance to be crit by -15 % with only 3 points in FS.
So FS is still pretty decent even vs classes with crit dmg tactics or mechanics.

[Wdova]

Spoiler:

What do You think is more viable at endgame PvP?
My gues is Trivial blows since even if you get Your chance to be crit is 0% dps classes can maintain around 40% crit chance anyway.

Depends on what you are facing, if you only face classes who benefit from crit dmg tactics or mechanics it´s good for sure,
Also if you spec FS, you usually spec atleast 3 x FS on every archetype, on some even x4 which reduces your chance to be crit by -15 % with only 3 points in FS.
So FS is still pretty decent even vs classes with crit dmg tactics or mechanics.

I have to find out I gues. Will try 4xTB insted.

[Cyrylius]

I vaguely remember some calculations that say that against bis geared dps only bw, asw and sometimes WH are worth speccing TB. With WH usually being equally effective against both. Non bis basically only bw has enough crit chance to make it worth taking.

As a matter of fact its a little bit trickier on order due to ork racial making choppas more crit dependent.

[Tanski]

IMO tb for bw/sorc/Mara/shad, fs otherwise.

But if you get crit debuffed, prol def tb

Taking either to 3-4 in scs gonna be good either way

[Scottx125]

Crit reduction always. Aside from it being 2x more effective then taking toughness in your renown. Say you go vs a BW. At max he gets +35% crit chance + 100% crit damage. For argument sake let's say you do 400 base damage * average crit of 1.4x. That's 560 damage for a total of 160 crit damage doubled to 320 from the extra crit bonus at 100%.

Extrapolate that over 100 in two scenarios, the first being 75% crit chance at 60% bonus damage. The other being 50% crit chance at 100% bonus.

75% crit chance and 60% bonus = (656 * 75) + (400 * 25) = 59200 dmg over 100 hits.
50% crit chance and 100% bonus = (720 * 50) + (400 * 50) = 56000 dmg over 100 hits.

Obviously an on paper calculation but crits result in more damage. That's not including other effects crits can provide. For example with Slayers jagged edge gives an extra 600 dmg tick when procced by a crit hit! So if you want to reduce crit damage, go futile strikes.

And in the event the calc is slightly different (additive % rather than multiplicative, so instead of 100% on top of crit damage it's 2.4x) the result is the same, the higher your crit the more damage you do.

Just a note here as well for any DPS looking, unless you gain something from your crit, like DMG bonus or extra tactics proccing for dmg. Invest in main stats for your renown.. Crit is only worth it if you proc stuff or gain additional bonus crit damage. And 1% crit == 9 STR/Int/whatever. Same as 1% reduce crit == 9 Toughness.

[Zuxoor]

How did you calculate worth of crit chance as dps dealer? According to your calculations, taking ranged crit chance as SH would always be bad... I feel like it gives great burst with 2 dots, armor reduce and channel. Would i still be doing more dmg putting all those points to ws?

[Scottx125]

You calculate it based on the extra damage it gives you. 5 Str = 1 bonus DMG. And at 1.4 average crit DMG 1% crit is worth around 9 Str. Remember this is about averages. Sometimes at 30% crit you'll crit 3 times in a row at max 1.5x DMG. Sometimes you'll do no crits. That's why I calculate it out of 100 hits. In short if I crit 50% of the time, in the event I don't end up critting, how much extra damage would each normal hit need to do to make up for the lost damage of those crits. Aka if 50 normal hits do 50 DMG and 50 crits do 90 DMG. That means to reach that same amount each hit that missed needs to make up the lost damage, so (90/50)*5 5 being the value for bonus DMG. Also, you can confirm this based on the tali's you get from the special Tali vendors. 4% crit and 36 Str across the board.

So if by default 1% crit is 9 Str. Any bonus DMG on top automatically makes the value go up. Especially if it procs armour debuffs etc. For example, slayers don't stack STR. They go full weapon skill to beat armour and hit for full DMG. Then they stack crit to proc jagged edge for an extra 600 DMG which is a massive increase in DMG. It's also why as healers stacking crit/ main stat isn't that useful. Every decent healer goes survival and uses the heal multipliers to boost the healing because it's so much more effective. I think on my WP with the right party comp I can get 55% more healing.

[Avernus]

Yeah, tell this "average stuff" to the BW/SC who's putting you on the 5s timer? Are you gonna die or not? You are not a city champ to tank 100 hits like its nothing, you can die from 1 "balanced" combo from BW/Sorc (unless you are deftard tank or something like that). And they have their own huge crit chance so they can shove your 0% from futile strikes back into your "average math".

It's good to have 0% but if you want to live a long life - pick both unless you are not planning to take hits at all (especially hard for order with all this destro pullfest). Or you have a REALLY reliable teammates (and your healers will probably force you to do it anyway...).

[Scottx125]

Yeah, tell this "average stuff" to the BW/SC who's putting you on the 5s timer? Are you gonna die or not? You are not a city champ to tank 100 hits like its nothing, you can die from 1 "balanced" combo from BW/Sorc (unless you are deftard tank or something like that). And they have their own huge crit chance so they can shove your 0% from futile strikes back into your "average math".

It's good to have 0% but if you want to live a long life - pick both unless you are not planning to take hits at all (especially hard for order with all this destro pullfest). Or you have a REALLY reliable teammates (and your healers will probably force you to do it anyway...).

You know 0% crit just means you're not giving them extra chance to crit? At that point it's whatever their base crit is. So if I have 0% chance to be crit and they have 50% crit chance. They're still gonna crit you 50% of the time. On my WP I run -20% crit chance. So if you've got 40% crit chance you only hit me 20% of the time with a crit. The meta has always been Avoidance > Crit reduction > Stats. So if you can't get block/parry whatever high enough, then you go for crit reduction, and then main stats like toughness, armour, wounds etc.