Killboard KDR should be removed!

[Everdin]

Spoiler:

True, but there are two other things to consider:

1) You have to take the fight where the enemy brings it to you, no matter if you are an objective

In addition to failing to negate the point I made your statement represents standard defeatist thinking. If you want to win a fight, you do not just stand around and wait for the enemy to 'bring the fight' to you. You control the fight by controlling those areas where you know the enemy must go if they have any desire to win the scenario and thus deny them the initiative. Lounging around in areas which don't matter only leads to one result.

However, as is standard, we are discussing two distinct aspects of scenario play, two aspects which must be dissimilated. As any who watched my series of Scenario Video Guides I published a few years back will know, the base-line standard from which I approached each conversation was the same, expressed primarily as 'all things being equal.' This means the pre-made pug stomps are and should largely be treated as outliers to the central issue of tactics employed in regard to scenario mechanics.

My statement stands. You can not capture any flag or any objective you refuse to actually go to. Healing and ranged class players who refuse to move forward and support an advance are the true detriment in scenario play. If your tanks and DPS gain an advantage forward, that advantage vanishes faster than a KDR Cowboy when someone looks at them cross-eyed when the ranged and healing guys refuse to move up and instead, turn and run when one fracking Destro tank charges them.

I have been streaming this game for years. But I suppose you would have me believe I never actually saw what I actually saw and none of it, despite being broadcast live on Twitch, ever happened.

2) Going for the flag or whatever the POI is brings you often directly IN the fight...

Which is exactly the point. If you control the flag in Caledor Woods and your enemy refuses to come up there and challenge for control, guess what? You win. If they do move up and challenge, guess what? You get to fight.

...while as a healer or range dps you want to move around it.

As a healer or ranged class if your Tanks and DPS are moving forward, you have to move forward or you are just fracking your team over. It is called momentum, and once either side gains momentum in a fight that fight must keep moving forward. And some healer standing around between a hundred and a hundred and fifty-feet away screaming 'where's my guard, where's my guard, OMG where's my guaaaaaaaaaaaaard!' isn't worth a guard because the instant they gee attacked they will turn and run.

All things being equal, aggression wins fights.

In this Nordenwatch example, as soon as you leave the bridge you only have a small room to move and the enemy can completly cut you off from any withdrawal chance.

Unless, and I'm just spit-balling here, you push the opposition from the flag and then, wait for it...move forward. If your only concern in a scenario fight is your escape route then you are useless in a scenario fight.

The only way to have enough space to move around with the ability to retreat is going where destro is coming from and hope your group will support you there.

This is called 'team effort.' Staying together, applying pressure, managing and controlling the fight, and maintaining the initiative. Scattering because one S&B Chosen attacks the back line only leads to one result.

To use your own words: "There are more things in heaven and earth..."

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, so thanks.

You are not standing around but you can be engaged on the way to a BO, if so, the worsed thing you can do is "Yep, let's go straight for the bos, the other guys will handle this here". Chances are high they will die and you will be next without a chance to holding whatvery the target is.

Never said you shouldn't move forward if your team does, you should always be in range to do whatever your job in the group is, anything else whould be insane.

Regarding brainless storming to a flag, bomb, shiny ball, whatever the BO is:
Let's stay with the Nordenwatch example, and let's assume it's a nearly equal fight. If you go directly for the flag as an range or healer, you will be right in the middle of the brawling and if not focuesd by the enemy you will still get hit by collateral damage, you create more preasure on your group then you are able to create on the enemy.

Of course, if your group is pushing them away you have to follow, never said somethign against this.

If it goes the other way and the enemy is pushing your frontline away you have to retreat, if you don't have a way to retreat, again, you will genereate pressure on your group that is not needed. A rdps retreating may be useless, a rdps refusing to go a few steps back is usefull for the enemy (needs heals, needs guard, needs rezz, hinders the healer to get space himself.

Team effort is a nice word, and it works as long as you play as a premade, otherwise teamwork is based on the luck
of your matchmaking.

If you feel flatterd, fine I sincerly give no flying ...
I myself found the word just appropriate cause you did't think about all outcomes yourself (I'm pretty sure me neither). But after these reply I think your are just to locked in in your point of view to accept there may be other ways of playing the game. Aggression don't win fights, while this may be the cause if you play against some pugs or newcommer, you won't win a fight showing anybody your diamond balls, in some cases it will work in the others you will get shredded and the diamond balls will hang over somebodys chimney.

[Martok]

Also strongly disagree with your statement in regards to healer&ranged classes pushing along everyone. They need space, they need control over battlefield, they cant simply advance all together hugging tanks.

Come on, man, This is another straw-man. I never said anything about 'hugging tanks,' I said the ranged classes must move forward when the tanks and dps are able to move forward, otherwise everyone quickly gets out of range and then what good are the ranged guys?

"Hey, ah, don't worry! We will be right here, guarding this bridge!"

[Ashoris]

without entering the quoteing WAR here.

Martok you are either limited in your tactics or ignore key elements of how some compositions play their strength or we all are simply thinking the same but are not able to communicate it correctly

a defensive stance or even a fake retreat are all valid tactics in fights (and the "way to go" tactic for certain group compositions). No one denies that at some point you have to advance to win.

But what you do BEFORE advancing is also important.
If you ignore that and always start with advancing without using your toolbox to its best, you limit yourself and the chances to win.

[Martok]

Martok you are either limited in your tactics or ignore key elements of how some compositions play their strength or we all are simply thinking the same but are not able to communicate it correctly.

As I stated prior, a few years back I crafted and published 24 distinct videos each detailing and discussing a different scenario. I focused on the mechanics of each scenario, tactics to employ, how to fight varied enemy groups, yada yada yada. I had no intention of covering all that same ground here but only illustrate one basic yet immutable fact about scenarios which tends, on most occasions, to go completely ignored by those playing.

[nocturnalguest]

Come on, man, This is another straw-man. I never said anything about 'hugging tanks,' I said the ranged classes must move forward when the tanks and dps are able to move forward, otherwise everyone quickly gets out of range and then what good are the ranged guys?

"Hey, ah, don't worry! We will be right here, guarding this bridge!"

Wut straw-man, you said yourself and i exaggerated (a bit). You quote me on tanks doing stuff with an example of what sometimes rdps in nordenwatch do (and actually being the exact opposite of what i was talking in the beginning, my "tank abandon team to rush objective solo" vs yours "people dont support pushes properly" which i read as "you are wrong dude, they should have go to objective with that lone tank and hold his hands" and thats plain false, situations i was taking about usually happens when team in which such tank is are losing most likely badly, but such tank instead should be helping in fight but not solo on bo, advancing alone in absolutely bad time) with pretty salty post (salt i like tho, so all good).

You just could think twice, join convo with better example and word your stuff nobody arguing about better.

[Caleb]

This discussion is being heavily de-railed by some of you to a direction that has nothing to do with the thread.

Please either return the discussion to the topic which is : "Killboard KDA Affecting Player Behavior" - or kindly create your own post where you can continue arguing.