[NA] Weekend scenarios exist for premades to farm pugs.

[lolwut]

I've been solo queueing Garden of Morr for the weekend event on and off on NA time for the last 3 days, and pops I got that weren't some sort of order premade stomping destro pug could be counted on maybe two hands. It takes a special kind of coward to queue time after time after time after time knowing for sure that you aren't going to get any resistance, but disregarding personal qualities of people who do that, shouldn't there be a mechanism to give puggies some breathing room, and a chance to complete the event? Small groups of people monopolizing timed content sure don't do this game any favors.

Just to preface the inevitable people who will preach about the power of your own premade, you do that, you counter these groups valiantly in NA times, do that please, quietly, but this thread is about the problem that exists because people will not group up, and your input is irrelevant and unappreciated.

As this is a suggestion and feedback thread, the feedback part should be clear, and for suggestions, I have a couple:

The primitive and simple solution would be to track groups of people that stomp assorted pugs, by account, and prevent them from getting pops. Let the puggies fight it out between themselves if there is no organized opposition.

The funny, salt-mine tier solution would be to put a [diminishing returns]-like account-wide debuff, that reduces all stats in scenarios by a like 5% for each stomp you did. Puggies aren't so fun to farm when they can farm you back, are they?

[Gier]

If it makes you feel any better as an Order player I face the same issues. Running into a Destro premade isn't a rare thing in fact it's almost normal if you're trying to get the weekend event completed. So it does happen to both sides, a lot. Regardless of what faction you play pugs suffer if they try to do the events. I'm all for fixing ques so that pugs fight pugs and premade fight premade.

[sleer40k]

I think SCs themselves are made in a way that promotes teamwork.
For example, this garden.. Respawn points always swap so your team will be scattered around without communication. The bosses are not killable without at least a group of players.
Plus in every SC there are those who leave after 2 deaths and surrender button spammers. Which ofc doesn't really help pugs vs premade situations.

On top of that, as I remember last time we had premade vs premade only SCs - nobody was having SCs at all, since we are so few on the server. Now you at least have a chance to grind the event objectives by playing a lot of crappy games instead of not playing at all.
Even as a dps player I still can play a lot of solo que SCs to get all the rewards.

I think some kind of debolstering you suggest for premade may work but feels extremely unnatural and would require months of balancing.

There are other ways that are not exactly better.
Some tweaks in contribution system can promote solo que.
Or maybe you can just permit only solo que.
Both ways wont help with discord parties that much but they are not as popular as simple chat premades anyway.

Plus in the end one could say that this is not a problem at all. There are classes that can work fine even for solo pug players vs premades.
And you don't really need to play SCs that much after all. People play not ranked SCs mostly for weekly rewards. They are not worthly your pain I think. Open RVR are much more fun and the bags can compensate the rewards.

[Minisynn]

The funny, salt-mine tier solution would be to put a [diminishing returns]-like account-wide debuff, that reduces all stats in scenarios by a like 5% for each stomp you did. Puggies aren't so fun to farm when they can farm you back, are they?

They could give even the most negative IQ premades a 100% damage and healing debuff and the average ror pugs would still fnd a way to kill themselves and lose anyway

[Helwer]

Yea it is not a special thing to one side, order or destro - more a pug-thing. On order you face the same issue with meeting destro-premades and get stomped 20 times 500-0. Although you have the possibility to join solo-que they don't want you there. And they will match you with premades to force you in a group or feed enemies. After all you'll be told to only join discordant.

After some weekends with the same result and not beeing able to finish weekend-sc-events my solution: I usually do not longer play scenarios as solo quer. The rare occassions i join a group with discord we use to farm others pretty hard the same way. I still think it should not be that way but they want it that way and you have to deal with it. Try 50 weekend-sc to finish 150 kills and 5 wins or don't even start to. I lost interest and usually don't even start. Especially Garden of Morr. Some others work better even as pug-player.

[Dackjanielz]

You're right and it sucks immensely.
i genuinely believe this right here is the number one reason most players quit the game.

New players join ROR then they get a small taste of this and leave and i don't blame them.

Unfortunately the attitude around here is "git gurd you scrubby noob and make a premade" which i'm sure doesn't make them run out the door even quicker.

[nocturnalguest]

A bit of different PoV - i tried to solo q on friday after EU prime (around 11:30 pm server time) on 3 archetypes and it didnt let me in but i saw in killboard that matches are happening so there were always some kind of group vs group and close to 0 loners, for me it started to pop only then i grouped up. So i struggle to understand how people are even managing to q 20-30-50 times solo. Lunch EU time of saturday i had few pops as solo but q was pretty long. You mention NA, and its indeed whole different story, will refrain from commenting it.
This warfront i didnt manage to finish vampire kills as they somehow follow general PvE ruleset (which definitely shouldnt be the case imo) - credit goes to a party which made most damage to mob. Assuming this weekend i did warfront in very small groups of 2-4 that was pretty hard to outdamage proper groups. Every match ive had there were always groups both sides of different number and quality and every match everyone skip vampires and go for kills.

In regards to what you purpose - of course thats definitely will never happen and i dont even see a need to elaborate why.

Here is a list and small reminder for those who also cant keep their ranting low, maybe someone will think twice before posting same stuff everyone discussed in and out, literally every bit of it:
1. Its well known that matchmaker (MM) needs a deep rework. Devs know about the issue, its just not thier toptier priority at the moment. They have it in their grand design plan shared.
New instances is formed once full 6 is in q so if one side has 6 and the other no tanks/no heals soloers it will create new instance. Groups dont even have to purposely dodge each other, they are rarely meeting in case if there are no equal numbers of them each realm.
Ranting about pug vs premade is pretty much pointless buiseness unless MM gets a proper rework. Keep in mind that then it will happen you guys will have 1 less excuse for your losses.
2. There are no working comeback mechanics in SCs by design (the only one that i can consider somewhat working is a ball in Isha, it at least allows you to turn the tides once if properly supported DPS in proper group takes it (yes, not you, fresh 40 stealther/dps healer in greenies)). Groups that are fighting in SCs are vary alot in their quality, stompy nature of such fights is embedded into combat mechanics. Snowballing effect comes into play and if skills for groups are vary much then the one making a mistake is starting to lose badly, resulting in stomps.
There was once this whole pug vs. premade discussion where we went into details on this one and i beleive even persuade few of pug/solo lobbists in that they need to think of not punishing grouping up in MMO but rather thinktank somekinda comeback mechanics in SCs to balance groups quality and allow some fightbacks. Since then ive never seen anykind of discussions on this regards sadly, imo that indirectly proves the point that all this ranting we see each week is all about "but mah rewards!!!!1" from pug/solo lobbists, and very sadly it seems pugs/solo are not interested in more balanced proper fights.
3. Premade is a very big word for what you encounter in weekend warfront. People who group up also pursue goals to rank up their alts, they do that in group content (it was multiple times claimed by RoR team that weekend warfront is by design a group activity). Your choice to pursue those rewards solo is your choice. Meet the consequences.

[Ashoris]

I've been solo queueing Garden of Morr for the weekend event on and off on NA time for the last 3 days, and pops I got that weren't some sort of order premade stomping destro pug could be counted on maybe two hands. It takes a special kind of coward to queue time after time after time after time knowing for sure that you aren't going to get any resistance, but disregarding personal qualities of people who do that, shouldn't there be a mechanism to give puggies some breathing room, and a chance to complete the event? Small groups of people monopolizing timed content sure don't do this game any favors.

Just to preface the inevitable people who will preach about the power of your own premade, you do that, you counter these groups valiantly in NA times, do that please, quietly, but this thread is about the problem that exists because people will not group up, and your input is irrelevant and unappreciated.

As this is a suggestion and feedback thread, the feedback part should be clear, and for suggestions, I have a couple:

The primitive and simple solution would be to track groups of people that stomp assorted pugs, by account, and prevent them from getting pops. Let the puggies fight it out between themselves if there is no organized opposition.

The funny, salt-mine tier solution would be to put a [diminishing returns]-like account-wide debuff, that reduces all stats in scenarios by a like 5% for each stomp you did. Puggies aren't so fun to farm when they can farm you back, are they?

Keep in mind that the weekend Scenario was created exactly to promote groupplay. Just because you dont like an argument/feedback does not mean its invalid.

My suggestion would be to make weekend SC Group only (size of group is debatable) queue or put in an additional task that says "Join Scenario while in a Group" - this would prevent the situation that grouped people will farm solo Players while also staying true to the goal of the weekend SC to promote Groupplay.

[Everdin]

Can't confirm the issue from last NA primetime yesterday. I was qued duo and we had pretty much nothing that we could identify as premade, on order there was some premade like group, but they were not really a thread. Don't remember when I had so much pug on both sides in a not discordant. (Nontheless at some point the stomp happend to one side)

Just my opinion, but even if you don't wand to build a group, get a friend que as duo or even trio and things will change. (try to avoid dps, dps, dps, balance your small setup)

[bittrio]

Been like this for a while. Think they said ques would be improved... soon.