Force Open WBs to be 2/2/2s

[Rotgut]

First though, I think putting the word "Force" in the post title created bad first impression for many people reading.

I think an option where it says "Make my party open" we could also have a checkbox saying "Make Balanced Party". Sounds nice, I'd tick it.

Actually perfect solution, sounds awesome. Tho i do think that it should come ticked, the less impediments - even if its just one click - the better.

But this won't happen!
All those DD classes online won't ever be able to join that open wb, if 2-2-2 is enforced, even as a toggle. You will need feedback for people who try to join that warband, pretty much the same as existing addons. We already had complains about "toxic" warband leaders with open warbands, who auto-kick wrong classes.
You think they will suddenly log to a class needed?

Adding the functionality of certain wb helper addons to the standard UI would be nice but then again people who need it often don't know about it.

Those with standard UI have no chance, so investing some time with addons is a requirement anyway.

You're right, you can't make people play a certain way, but you can make the game incentive a playstyle and hope that more people respond to it. This wouldn't exclude players that only play DD - they can just make another open WB of their own - it would just swap the difficulty. Wanna play or lead in a 2/2/2 that can be a net positive for the lakes? Well its easier now. Wanna play in a random comp WB where all you can do is follow another WB around (aggravating blobs)? Then you gotta use /5, or make another open WB and be the leader.

And you're also right about the addons. Would be great if WarbandLeaderHelper (and others) came with the base game, and if the Devs make such a move, they would need to fix the auto-kicking of wrong classes. Like i pointed out on the first post, you can trick the game by slotting a DPS Tactic as a Healer at the end of City's phase 2, and u'll become the Ranged DPS Champion. I hope that shows that the game can be made to identify what is a real Healer and what is a DPS Specced Healer Class (or Tank).

[Zxul]

This wouldn't exclude players that only play DD - they can just make another open WB of their own - it would just swap the difficulty. Wanna play or lead in a 2/2/2 that can be a net positive for the lakes? Well its easier now. Wanna play in a random comp WB where all you can do is follow another WB around (aggravating blobs)? Then you gotta use /5, or make another open WB and be the leader.

So now you end up with 10 wbs of 8 dps which can't accept more players. Great idea

[Rotgut]

This wouldn't exclude players that only play DD - they can just make another open WB of their own - it would just swap the difficulty. Wanna play or lead in a 2/2/2 that can be a net positive for the lakes? Well its easier now. Wanna play in a random comp WB where all you can do is follow another WB around (aggravating blobs)? Then you gotta use /5, or make another open WB and be the leader.

So now you end up with 10 wbs of 8 dps which can't accept more players. Great idea

You can't make people play a certain way, but you can make the game incentivize a playstyle and hope that more people respond to it. Shifting the onus from the content creating WBs to the WBs that add nothing but downsides to the lakes and hoping that helps is all this idea proposes. If players choose to overcome the new barrier, cuz creating another WB is a barrier that will make a certain amount of ppl choose to not do it, then the idea failed and the game stays as it is. Nothing changes. So why not try if it can't hurt the game.

[Firebird]

Yep, the word “force” totally turned me against the initial idea, we get enough of that already.
I know the prevailing wisdom is 2/2/2 is the only way, but I disagree with that premise. It is definitely beneficial most of the time, but I have seen some odd wb builds that worked well for specific purposes.
Just let the wb leader decide how to form his wb. I don’t understand why we would want to force everyone into the same mold.
Honestly, I’d like to see wb’s play with alternate builds. Some might be trash, but others might work. We are too stuck in the “only 2/2/2” is good mindset.

[Helwer]

riding a dead horse here. we haven't enough pug-leaders. and you want to promote a playstyle that requires more pug leaders. Players won't open new warbands cause you think they should play 2/2/2. Sorry, but that's simply not realistic and will have none up to really bad impact to pug players. you rarely get open defense-groups in every setup that fade just the second after tick. you will not get any new wb additional to the known pug-leaders. if i wanted to lead pugs i would do it but not because of a forced 2/2/2.

also here be added - the witch elf wb is only one example mentioned that there are players that enjoy testing new setups and try to break megazerg like yersterday once again.

they will follow org wbs solo try to leech something before they open a new warband as lead.

[leftside]

I think any suggestion meant to facilitate group play deserves consideration.

The prevailing strategy of chastising solo players is rather dubious.

[Rotgut]

Yep, the word “force” totally turned me against the initial idea, we get enough of that already.
I know the prevailing wisdom is 2/2/2 is the only way, but I disagree with that premise. It is definitely beneficial most of the time, but I have seen some odd wb builds that worked well for specific purposes.
Just let the wb leader decide how to form his wb. I don’t understand why we would want to force everyone into the same mold.
Honestly, I’d like to see wb’s play with alternate builds. Some might be trash, but others might work. We are too stuck in the “only 2/2/2” is good mindset.

Non 2/2/2 WBs can work if they are organized, 100%. This idea isn't trying to say that 2/2/2s is the only viable WB, its trying to tackle the problem of "content in this game 99% player created, Open WBs in their current form doesn't create content".

By making Open WBs into 2/2/2s (or like it was suggested, adding an in-game option that can be easily selected), which is a functional WB that can operate on its own, it will diminish the barriers that making 2/2/2 pugbands have and hopefully help create more content, particularly during low pop hours. The premises i propose are that an Open WB in its current state will only aggravate blobbing and PvDoor, and that there are unnecessary barriers for making 2/2/2 pugbands, which is a shame because they can bring benefits to the lakes.

An Open WB lacking Healers and Tanks can't do anything alone, so they'll never start a siege, they'll lose 95% of the fights (and lose players each wipe) and they don't provide much renown. When do most Open WBs pop up? When there is a siege happening (and disband shortly after) or when there are Organized WBs out for them to blob with. That isn't creating content, its just making the winning side win more, and its not utilizing the "Click and Play" feature in this game in a fun way for the players.

As for the barriers present in creating and joining an organized pugband, each one will deflect a number of players from participating. Leaders have to download addons, keep spamming /5 as WarbandLeaderHelper is more popular than Autoband, and divide their attention between leading and reforming if they don't have an assistant. Followers have to answer to /5 and won't know if there is a WB out there untill the Leader advertises it. These barriers sound really small, believe me i agree with that, but its an impediment i've come to accept as significant. There are players that will never PM a WB Leader (doesn't matter how much more renown he would get in a 2/2/2 WB), there are players that won't bother with any addon, there are players that would like to lead WBs but don't wanna deal with all the "admin" work.

I'm hoping this will help change the gameplay loop during low pop hours. Because right now the average player just logs the faction where they know there will be one Guild WB out, and PvDoor for a while to get bags. This gets boring even for the winning side. Its Destro in the EU mornings if Gigi is out (was Order before they swapped), Destro at the start of NA if Big Inc is out, Order during late NA if Jempire is out, or if no Guild WB is out the average player will just log off. If we turn the "Click and Play" WBs into something that can siege and can win fights, or in other words "be real content", then we will be less depended on specific people to be online for the lakes to be active, the underdog side will have an easier time forming a resistance that has a chance, and the game will just be easier to have fun with.

[Zxul]

By making Open WBs into 2/2/2s (or like it was suggested, adding an in-game option that can be easily selected), which is a functional WB that can operate on its own, it will diminish the barriers that making 2/2/2 pugbands have and hopefully help create more content, particularly during low pop hours. The premises i propose are that an Open WB in its current state will only aggravate blobbing and PvDoor, and that there are unnecessary barriers for making 2/2/2 pugbands, which is a shame because they can bring benefits to the lakes.

No, all those will do is create lot of open wbs made from 8 dd, because where exactly do you think they are suppose to get the heals/tanks from?

[Rotgut]

No, all those will do is create lot of open wbs made from 8 dd, because where exactly do you think they are suppose to get the heals/tanks from?

So, like i told you last time, the game will remain as is. Nothing changes. But we shifted incentives and made it easier for content to be made, that is what good game development should do. If players don't respond to that, the idea failed and we try something else. There is no downside to trying, cuz there is no difference between 2 WBs with 8 DPS and 1 WB with 16 DPS.

Besides, your premise isn't correct. There are Tanks and Healers out there, they don't join organized pugbands for other reasons (i'm betting that is because of the current barriers). Its not that they aren't there. I've led 2/2/2 pugbands for 2 months almost every night on Order, then again on Destro for like a month, and i've been in dozens more organized pugbands - if there is an Open WB around, it will have tanks and healers in it that aren't responding to /5. Doesn't matter that they are getting a fraction of the renown they would get in a 2/2/2, some players just don't answer to /5.