[Swordmaster] Roll back (mostly) to December

[Phantasm]

SM in its current state is utter trash. They killed 2h dps build damage and defenses for no reason. One of the few classes that actually has an interesting alternative niche playstyle (2h tank) that corresponds to the lore just nerfed to be basically an npc with a m2 jump. Now a chosen has more damage, more party utility, more tankiness and build diversity. Meanwhile BG got buffs....whats the damn point of this class? Did they even play it to check how it felt both in scenarios and rvr?

Well it really bothers you as you made account to make that comment.

I think it will help a lot SM/BO if their stance mechanics were removed. It would allow also to easier balance skills etc. Maybe instead of attaching certain skills to a stance, give unique buff each stance gives.

[vraks]

SM in its current state is utter trash. They killed 2h dps build damage and defenses for no reason. One of the few classes that actually has an interesting alternative niche playstyle (2h tank) that corresponds to the lore just nerfed to be basically an npc with a m2 jump. Now a chosen has more damage, more party utility, more tankiness and build diversity. Meanwhile BG got buffs....whats the damn point of this class? Did they even play it to check how it felt both in scenarios and rvr?

Well it really bothers you as you made account to make that comment.

I think it will help a lot SM/BO if their stance mechanics were removed. It would allow also to easier balance skills etc. Maybe instead of attaching certain skills to a stance, give unique buff each stance gives.

dumb idea since everyone who plays SM / BO is fine with the stance dance, otherwise they'd make an IB / BG , or they'd also need to remove grudge / hate. Also the current imbalance has nothing to do with stances, but with big nerfs to critical skills that made the core for damage /defence of 2h sm

[CyunUnderis]

I think it will help a lot SM/BO if their stance mechanics were removed. It would allow also to easier balance skills etc. Maybe instead of attaching certain skills to a stance, give unique buff each stance gives.

I also think this is a good idea. It will help a lot average players doing their job and experts BO/SM will be rewarded if they manage their rotation properly. A good example can be the KD where each stance increase the duration by 0.5 of the KD from 2 sc to 3 sc or the lenght of the punt depending of the stance.

dumb idea since everyone who plays SM / BO is fine with the stance dance, otherwise they'd make an IB / BG , or they'd also need to remove grudge / hate. Also the current imbalance has nothing to do with stances, but with big nerfs to critical skills that made the core for damage /defence of 2h sm

You can't say that everyone is fine with the stance dance, I don't think this is a funny mechanic.

What are the big nerfs of the critical skills ?

WW ? Same nerf for both side, it is even worse Destruction side because you need 30 Hate to launch it where you can get it in 1 or 2 GCD with SM - so when you engage for example.
WoDS ? The skill was too strong, especially in 6v6/SC : as an enemy you used your taunt to try to punt a SM under WoDS, you can't punt him because he can just press WoDS again. So I waste a CD (except if I work with another tank to do the punt when I taunt). The AP issue is a joke, especially if you spent most of your time in stance 3.
ED ? They adjusted all channels on tanks. SM has been nerfed (a bit). It should be still fine. A reduction of 16 Base Damage and 0.0.4 Weapon Damage is not a "big nerf"

So, what are the big nerfs I missed ?

And no one is talking about the good aspect with the punt or the 6 sc immunites.

[Nekkma]

Wods is not an issue for punts. Tanks are sporting 50-70 % parry in general so anyone punting from the front deserves to get parried.

Personally, I feel that the cd made the skill alot worse in practice (while it may seem fine in theory). And people saying it don't have a drawback. It is a freakin channel preventing you from doing anything else. Not having a cd was what made it usable as when needed you could channel use an ability and go back to channel if needed. At this state I would much prefer a weaker fire and forget type of defense buff.

[vraks]

I think it will help a lot SM/BO if their stance mechanics were removed. It would allow also to easier balance skills etc. Maybe instead of attaching certain skills to a stance, give unique buff each stance gives.

I also think this is a good idea. It will help a lot average players doing their job and experts BO/SM will be rewarded if they manage their rotation properly. A good example can be the KD where each stance increase the duration by 0.5 of the KD from 2 sc to 3 sc or the lenght of the punt depending of the stance.

dumb idea since everyone who plays SM / BO is fine with the stance dance, otherwise they'd make an IB / BG , or they'd also need to remove grudge / hate. Also the current imbalance has nothing to do with stances, but with big nerfs to critical skills that made the core for damage /defence of 2h sm

You can't say that everyone is fine with the stance dance, I don't think this is a funny mechanic.

What are the big nerfs of the critical skills ?

WW ? Same nerf for both side, it is even worse Destruction side because you need 30 Hate to launch it where you can get it in 1 or 2 GCD with SM - so when you engage for example.
WoDS ? The skill was too strong, especially in 6v6/SC : as an enemy you used your taunt to try to punt a SM under WoDS, you can't punt him because he can just press WoDS again. So I waste a CD (except if I work with another tank to do the punt when I taunt). The AP issue is a joke, especially if you spent most of your time in stance 3.
ED ? They adjusted all channels on tanks. SM has been nerfed (a bit). It should be still fine. A reduction of 16 Base Damage and 0.0.4 Weapon Damage is not a "big nerf"

So, what are the big nerfs I missed ?

And no one is talking about the good aspect with the punt or the 6 sc immunites.

No chance comparing ib /bg mechanics to bo / sm, grudges and hate are way easier to manage than stance rotation, specially when you have 0.5 seconds to hit the right ability and you mess up your rotation as sm / bo. Specially since you can put oathfriend to an ally before the fight and get some quick grudges, with BG is not even a problem, since you dont need tactic slot and gain hate from your own attacks as well as from the enemy. i played black orc, swordmaster and ib to rr +80 and it was always easier to react to stuff with IB since you dont need skill rotation.
If the reason of the nerf was because of 6vs6 just delete pull from engi and magus, all aoe spells from bw and sorc and well as choppa since theey are too strong in AOE situations in it?
WODS too strong???? It was the only active defensive skill of swordmaster appart from the shitty magic bubble that doesnt absorb melee damage and was as easy to counter as going around the sm. Something that anyone playing more than 1 month already should know how to do.
And it was vital for rvr, specially keep defences since with 2h you dont have anything else to help your team during a keep siege , all your stuff has to be while hitting an enemy.
if by adjusted you mean nerf swordmaster to garbage and buff bg for no reason, ye u right
is not 1 skill, is a combination of nerfs that has made the class the worst tank at the moment, specially 2h:

1. your resist aura debuff not stacking with wrath of hoeth, therefore making it literally useless
2. wods beign interrupted and you having to wait 5 secs in the worst moment, wich doesnt allow you going aggresive mode so often or you ending up dead
3. longer CD on whispering wind so you can be even a bit more useless playing as 2h whispering wind bot
4. less damage in your hardest hitting skill
5. less parry bonus from eagles flight

[CyunUnderis]

No chance comparing ib /bg mechanics to bo / sm, grudges and hate are way easier to manage than stance rotation, specially when you have 0.5 seconds to hit the right ability and you mess up your rotation as sm / bo. Specially since you can put oathfriend to an ally before the fight and get some quick grudges, with BG is not even a problem, since you dont need tactic slot and gain hate from your own attacks as well as from the enemy. i played black orc, swordmaster and ib to rr +80 and it was always easier to react to stuff with IB since you dont need skill rotation.

I never said that it was not easier to react with an IB/BG compare to BO/SM. I just said that it could be better to remove the stance dance and have something else instead to be useful faster and react better, like the other tanks.

If the reason of the nerf was because of 6vs6 just delete pull from engi and magus, all aoe spells from bw and sorc and well as choppa since theey are too strong in AOE situations in it?

I didn't say that the reason of the nerf was because of SC/6v6. I don't know. I just took it as an example. What is this argument ?

WODS too strong???? It was the only active defensive skill of swordmaster appart from the shitty magic bubble that doesnt absorb melee damage and was as easy to counter as going around the sm. Something that anyone playing more than 1 month already should know how to do.

A good tank will never give his back. So, good luck countering it/killing him during WoDS in a fair fight.

And it was vital for rvr, specially keep defences since with 2h you dont have anything else to help your team during a keep siege , all your stuff has to be while hitting an enemy.

Why do you want to play 2H SM in a keep defense instead of S/B ? Maybe that is the real problem here : you want to have your playstyle (2H SM) being good in any game mode. This is not really possible. Especially because 2H SM doesn't bring anything in RvR/Defense Keep compare to SM S/B (except if you play the same build as S/B but with a 2H). And don't tell me "Damage", because you will hit like a wet noodle compare to every DPS in the Keep.

if by adjusted you mean nerf swordmaster to garbage and buff bg for no reason, ye u right
is not 1 skill, is a combination of nerfs that has made the class the worst tank at the moment, specially 2h:

1. your resist aura debuff not stacking with wrath of hoeth, therefore making it literally useless
2. wods beign interrupted and you having to wait 5 secs in the worst moment, wich doesnt allow you going aggresive mode so often or you ending up dead
3. longer CD on whispering wind so you can be even a bit more useless playing as 2h whispering wind bot
4. less damage in your hardest hitting skill
5. less parry bonus from eagles flight

1. I'm glad it doesn't stack, otherwise we will have a huge problem with 0 Spiritual Resistance. Also, if you max Path of Hoeth, the Heaven's Blade debuff will be stronger then an Aura's Knight, especially the Elemental part, perfect for a BW (S tier in the proc meta).
2. As I previously stated, you can have a build where you are at 80% buffed, 10k HP, so during WoDS downtime, you should be good/safe.
3. Both side have a 10sc duration CD reducer for 30sc CD.
4. Like I said, only a reduction of 16 Base Damage and 0.0.4 Weapon Damage. It is not what you called a big nerf. Get over it.
5. But longer duration so you don't need to use it every rotation (and all tanks parry skill have been nerfed to 20% parry).

I can't understand why, for you, the SM is worst tank at the moment, where he has a lot of tools and is good for WB/6-men (punt, anti-cc, debuff resist, cd reducer, M2 AoE snare, good healing input in Zerg vs Zerg, ...) depending of the composition.

[vraks]

just say you are a bg that never played sm

Lilim:// Hello! This dude is a troll (-account). Don't feed him, we already showed him the door.

[CyunUnderis]

just say you are a bg that never played sm

Good troll. I guess this is too hard to have a proper discussion with arguments when you are a SM player only pressing WoDS and ED. Maybe you deserve to get farmed.

At least, I tried.

[Hazmy]

Stay respectful to one another and keep to the OP's topic as this is the Suggestions & Feedback forum and getting personal should have no place here, nor anywhere else really.

I ask following comments to keep it constructive, objective and on topic please.

[Sever1n]

Its literally feel like coments from people who never played sm and trowing "argumens" that worth nothing if u read them closely. Now those experts want to remove stances which give class interesting mechanic and payback for strong skills. They dont understand that SM cant hit in wods, while destro runing in 80parry mode 99% oh the time. They dont understant that 2h sm was crusial part in order st goups that added dmg to focus that insanelly defended destro heals. Its feels like destro just happy that good working class that really dont needed those changes now have broken legs. That why SM players so angry.