About time you balance the roaming and not just the mass rvr of factions

[reynor007]

chopper > SL

Wow, such eloquence. That was enlightening (read in sarcastic).

Now, joke apart. I can't talk about Magus, engie, chosen, kotbs, sw and sh. I don't play these classes. On the other hand I do play Slayer/Choppa and AM/Shaman. Addressing the OP would be pointless because other ppl already explained very well why it is just a biased rant. I just would like to point out a couple of things that the Order lobbyists here are not saying, though out of ignorance or malice I can't say.

Choppa-Slayer
Slayer had the monopoly on Order melee choice for 15 years. It was literally the strongest class in the game. Choppa was by no mean as strong as Slayer, both in solo and in party/wb. There are a lot of "famous" solo Slayer, but there aren't any famous solo choppa player. This is because solo Choppa was not a thing, it just didn't work as well as Slayer. What made Slayer so strong was Rampage. The skill needed to be toned down. It ignored morale, it made guarding a DPS counterproductive, and it made the whole tank archetype a joke. And order defended their right to have the skill with nails and theef. The knew they had a privilege but no one wanted to acknowledge it for fear of having it removed. The skill was toxic.
Choppa used to have more utility (GTDC, Chop Fasta vs Shatter Limbs) while slayer used to have more damage (ID and Rampage). Now the two classes have the same utility (no more Chop Fasta) and Choppa damage was buffed on par with Slayer. But Slayer still have Rampage, while Choppa, in the same tree and for the same Mastery point, have a nice pile of garbage. So, no. Choppa is not better than Slayer

Shaman-AM:
Is Shaman immortal in 1v1? Yes... If heal spec. Just as much as every single other healer. Healer shouldn't die to 1 single DPS attacking them. And if they do, it is because they fuked up. DPS shaman is not immortal. Shaman have great mobility. It have 3 kiting tools (punt, puddle and Run Away) and that is by design since Order has WL which have 3 gap closer (pounce, pull and charge). You want nerf shaman mobility? Fine, then nerf WL mobility also. DPS Shaman is worst than DPS AM. Heal Shaman is worst then heal AM. As a healer you have the same healing skills but then Shaman have worst morale pump, worst AP drain, worst puddle, worst M2. Shaman is just plainly worst than AM. Shaman received only nerfs since the beginning of RoR. They nerfed puddle, auto detaunt, run away, lifetap, AP drain and Gork's (or Mork's? Can't remember) Touch (now called Hurts, Don't It?). They even broken the class mechanic. And you know how many buff received Shaman? A big fat 0.

the shaman received 0 buffs, are we really playing the same game?
AM lost the 25% vampirism tactic from the dot, one hundred made him top 1 for life, m1 can now remove sh with one ability, and the resist no longer works for absorption, got a weakening of one of the dot
Sham received a detaunt that is combined with tactics, 3 dot, improved hot in the first tree, improved buff of 15% damage from absorbing 3 trees and the only nerf he received was a 5 second cooldown of the running tactics
the shaman has become much stronger than before, but he has become weaker, this simply cannot be denied

[reynor007]

Slayers have been extinct since the last patch, all replaced with white lions and theres truck tons of Choppas since in the last patch they got buffed.

But apparently slayers are better.

mekz senz

Slayer is not extinct. Lots of double slayer premade in the event sc. The fact that you see more diversity in the Order's class distribution is another proof that slayer was monopolizing the choice. But if you are talking about solo Slayer, then, again, you are strenghtening my point. Rampage was the only skill that made Slayer viable in solo. Now that is not OP anymore you don't see solo Slayer anymore. Just as you don't see solo Choppa.
Choppa received a buff so it is normal that more ppl play it now, I'm not sure about your point here. Also, the buff that choppa received didn't really make it more viable in solo, so no change on that front.
Finally no one wrote that slayer is better than choppa. I surely didn't. Someone wrote that Slayer ST damage is better tan Choppa's, which is true and the reason is ID. I mean, just look at ID cooldaown and GTDC cooldown? You can pretty much spam ID (which in turn will proc any kind of ****) and it fire and forget while GTDC is a chnnel.

I find hilarious that everyone here say choppa>slayer but no care to explain why (spoiler: becuase it is not true). They share most of their skills and tactics, it is not so hard to see the differences.

hmm, let me try to explain why in 1v1 choppa has more chances, why choppa is generally better for soloing, I already wrote in my message for slayer it is better to have a build based on critical damage due to the tactics of 10% for every 10% hp, but as we know, crit bills are played very poorly here, and it is difficult to consider this an ideal build if we compare the classic riposte build, choppa has 1600 more health, while slayer now has -1second KD and 80tough with the new ability, choppa's damage is approximately equal to slayer's damage but choppa can still disrupt heal chanel, slayer can't do anything about it, m1 absorb is also obviously better in combat 1v1, the slayer will always get KD as soon as he uses 7sec parry and half the morale will be wasted try to give some arguments in favor of the fact that at least in battle it’s not 60/40 in favor of choppa

[mazi761111]

Slayers have been extinct since the last patch, all replaced with white lions and theres truck tons of Choppas since in the last patch they got buffed.

But apparently slayers are better.

mekz senz

Slayer is not extinct. Lots of double slayer premade in the event sc. The fact that you see more diversity in the Order's class distribution is another proof that slayer was monopolizing the choice. But if you are talking about solo Slayer, then, again, you are strenghtening my point. Rampage was the only skill that made Slayer viable in solo. Now that is not OP anymore you don't see solo Slayer anymore. Just as you don't see solo Choppa.
Choppa received a buff so it is normal that more ppl play it now, I'm not sure about your point here. Also, the buff that choppa received didn't really make it more viable in solo, so no change on that front.
Finally no one wrote that slayer is better than choppa. I surely didn't. Someone wrote that Slayer ST damage is better tan Choppa's, which is true and the reason is ID. I mean, just look at ID cooldaown and GTDC cooldown? You can pretty much spam ID (which in turn will proc any kind of ****) and it fire and forget while GTDC is a chnnel.

I find hilarious that everyone here say choppa>slayer but no care to explain why (spoiler: becuase it is not true). They share most of their skills and tactics, it is not so hard to see the differences.

hmm, let me try to explain why in 1v1 choppa has more chances, why choppa is generally better for soloing, I already wrote in my message for slayer it is better to have a build based on critical damage due to the tactics of 10% for every 10% hp, but as we know, crit bills are played very poorly here, and it is difficult to consider this an ideal build if we compare the classic riposte build, choppa has 1600 more health, while slayer now has -1second KD and 80tough with the new ability, choppa's damage is approximately equal to slayer's damage but choppa can still disrupt heal chanel, slayer can't do anything about it, m1 absorb is also obviously better in combat 1v1, the slayer will always get KD as soon as he uses 7sec parry and half the morale will be wasted try to give some arguments in favor of the fact that at least in battle it’s not 60/40 in favor of choppa

in parrg low lv cunning slayer is you ??

[akisnaakkeli]

rampage was great but ID is literally best damage skill in the game and you can get its cd to 0 with a tactic. i proved it to myself once i pressed no other skill than ID during a t4 scenario with an invader geared slayed and came up on top of damage and kills this way. with -5 cd tactic and only switched targets to spread id debuff. its funny what you can read on the forums. people with multiple 80's asking for slayer to get a pull and other nonsense.

slayer still got id and 30+% strike thru with no gcd rampage up. choppa got 75 ap pot at the cost of gcd and dropping ur rage lol. furious stomping is amazing for sure but shatter limbs is very good aswell

Aye. My personal solo single target dmg build RoR.builders - Slayer

Man i miss RvR Influence wpn for choppa/slayer bloodfist axe i believe name for slayer, it had Boost V proc : 10% Chance on hit to increase Crit dmg by 12% Crit rate by 9% "

[Zxul]

I completely agree, almost any desrto class has huge advantages compared to order we, choosen, magus, sham, sh, dok, even choppa solo became stronger after adding a new ability
and to be honest, at the moment the only class that is possible to play solo with an order is AM 50rr def we in dominator will kill any class due to witchbrew 700+dmg I don’t think anyone is interested in playing knowing that you don’t have a single chance to win the battle

So its been some time.

Reynor here is how you kill that unkillable 50 WB WE:
1. Get your corp mitigation to 40%, since it works fine vs procs. Plenty of classes have corp buffs on order, including an IB. In addition, all dwarfs have corp resist racial tactic, if you are worried that much. Also, resist lini was buffed some time ago to give +360 to all resists.
That alone will turn 700 WB into 420 WB.
2. Have enough dmg to kill the WE past the regen. Again, several classes on order can do that.

Now to go into numbers. It takes 16.8 resist to get 1% mitigation, so 16.8 * 40= 672 corp resist needed for cap. 672- 360 lini = 312 corp resist base, which any class has at 40.

So all it takes to kill 1v1 that unkillable WE is any decent dps on order using resist lini.

Edit: And for that matter, the very same lini will add 21.4% extra mitigation vs sham which order complains about so much, as well as vs magus/ sorc/ chosen in most builds/ most of dok's lifetaps.

you are definitely right, will you show us how to do what? I'll go to my we, and you can choose any class

Would need for that solo specced WL or SW, which I don't have. Closest I got is magus, if you want can test with it.

[reynor007]

Would need for that solo specced WL or SW, which I don't have. Closest I got is magus, if you want can test with it.

I consider myself a pretty good SW, I can say for sure that if WE manages to change tactics before the start of the battle (always due to invisibility), SW unfortunately will not have a single chance, even if he uses a 360 resist potion

with WL everything is a little more complicated, as far as I know, the best WL weapon is from city dungeons, which gives 800hp is broken I played regen WL and know its capabilities, I killed medium def WE, but that was before so WB became stronger by 25%, now, provided that WL has a 0% chance of critical damage, I think his chances of win are no more than 15 %

dd magus may be the only one who has a chance to defeat Def WE and I'm not sure about this, but the magus is on destro's side, so it doesn't make sense

and to understand, I had a fight with AM holyfire, which lasted more than 15 minutes, AM has 800 resist, while he was on the verge of death about 4 times and only the presence of two detaunts saved him and let me remind you that at that time WB still did not receive +25% damage

[Zxul]

and to understand, I had a fight with AM holyfire, which lasted more than 15 minutes, AM has 800 resist, while he was on the verge of death about 4 times and only the presence of two detaunts saved him and let me remind you that at that time WB still did not receive +25% damage

On the side note, here is a very easy way to win vs dps am on DE toon with high toughness- slot spirit resist tactic + use blue spirit resist pot/resists lini, watch AM do no dmg.

As for WE, the thing with it is simple- you need a toon that can outdmg the regen past the toughness, while surviving long enough vs WE's dmg. The mitigation + regen and the proc corp dmg are the two main things about regen WE vs dps- once you can deal with those two regen WE doesn't has much else to offer. And the resist lini alone takes you to 40% corp proc mitigation.

Thing about dps AM vs regen WE, is that dps AM heals mostly with lifetaps, so high mitigation acts like a heal debuff vs dps AM. Vs a toon which heals with regen - which isn't affected by WE's mitigation or heal debuffs- things would be more interesting.

[reynor007]

and to understand, I had a fight with AM holyfire, which lasted more than 15 minutes, AM has 800 resist, while he was on the verge of death about 4 times and only the presence of two detaunts saved him and let me remind you that at that time WB still did not receive +25% damage

On the side note, here is a very easy way to win vs dps am on DE toon with high toughness- slot spirit resist tactic + use blue spirit resist pot/resists lini, watch AM do no dmg.

As for WE, the thing with it is simple- you need a toon that can outdmg the regen past the toughness, while surviving long enough vs WE's dmg. The mitigation + regen and the proc corp dmg are the two main things about regen WE vs dps- once you can deal with those two regen WE doesn't has much else to offer. And the resist lini alone takes you to 40% corp proc mitigation.

Thing about dps AM vs regen WE, is that dps AM heals mostly with lifetaps, so high mitigation acts like a heal debuff vs dps AM. Vs a toon which heals with regen - which isn't affected by WE's mitigation or heal debuffs- things would be more interesting.

what you write contradicts each other as much as possible there is no class in this game that can consistently deal more damage than AM anyone knows that 4 dots and - resist are enough to kill most classes, the only class that could fight equally with def WE (before she got the bug 5 tactics + 25% damage for witchbrew) was WH, but now there are simply no such classes , the slayer is probably the closest, but it’s not clear whether he can survive such insane damage

[Zxul]

and to understand, I had a fight with AM holyfire, which lasted more than 15 minutes, AM has 800 resist, while he was on the verge of death about 4 times and only the presence of two detaunts saved him and let me remind you that at that time WB still did not receive +25% damage

On the side note, here is a very easy way to win vs dps am on DE toon with high toughness- slot spirit resist tactic + use blue spirit resist pot/resists lini, watch AM do no dmg.

As for WE, the thing with it is simple- you need a toon that can outdmg the regen past the toughness, while surviving long enough vs WE's dmg. The mitigation + regen and the proc corp dmg are the two main things about regen WE vs dps- once you can deal with those two regen WE doesn't has much else to offer. And the resist lini alone takes you to 40% corp proc mitigation.

Thing about dps AM vs regen WE, is that dps AM heals mostly with lifetaps, so high mitigation acts like a heal debuff vs dps AM. Vs a toon which heals with regen - which isn't affected by WE's mitigation or heal debuffs- things would be more interesting.

what you write contradicts each other as much as possible there is no class in this game that can consistently deal more damage than AM anyone knows that 4 dots and - resist are enough to kill most classes, the only class that could fight equally with def WE (before she got the bug 5 tactics + 25% damage for witchbrew) was WH, but now there are simply no such classes , the slayer is probably the closest, but it’s not clear whether he can survive such insane damage

If it helps, just roamed a bit on my 68 dps zealot for an old times sake, and solo killed a 82 dps AM. Though looking at it, the equip isn't all the great.

And DE spirit resist tactic + blue spirit resist pot/ resist lini is enough to put you at 40% spirit resist even with AM debuff. Now just add high toughness for some extra fun.

[BoriqOne]

Reynor007 : is an experienced player, that plays both sides, i truly believe his unbiased opinion. Facts destruction DOES have it easy, we/us /order can not 1v1 any destruction player/ers. why , Order has been neutered to the bone now....imo it wasn't easy for us even before the changes, but thats just me at my ripe age playing this was fun game... don't get me wrong it is fun, when i play easy mode on destro though, dog gone enjoyable/easy i have 4 characters now. i can say i played both sides, Destro is better...period, play order for a year, good luck if you can maintain your humility/sanity. even order eats order . it's crazy over there, why ? they made them crazy with changes out of the solar system ! seriously SM? 2 h slayer nerfs ? oooh nelly ! why ?? ...i walk out of any WC playing destro with NO FEAR. on order.....i have to wait till i see a group run out so i can get the free escort to my WB, lol thats messed up. it's not FUN either.