About time you balance the roaming and not just the mass rvr of factions

[Faction69]

Damage output of regen WE is significantly lower than that of DPS WE/WH. In any small scale fight involving balanced group comps with healers and tanks on both sides, DPS builds are much better, damage is way higher. Torment/Agonizing Wound damage is massive given that everyone uses armor pot and you can just ignore it with 0 investment in weapon skill required.

Tho I play WE I would still be happy to see the regen builds get gutted because thematically it makes no sense.

[Zxul]

Tho I play WE I would still be happy to see the regen builds get gutted because thematically it makes no sense.

Depends really- if you look at WE trees, only one of them is about backstabbing and crits. Carnage is all about bruiser style frontal dmg. While Suffering is all about slowly killing poisons and surviving till those do the job- so regen builds fit in there thematically very fine.

Actually if you look at original Warhammer Witch Elf lore, is doesn't actually has anything about stealth- its all about frontal assault and poisons.

https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Witch_Elves

[normanis]

agree with thread, i still waiting normal pulls on order side and aoe knockdown.
nerf regen, give back squig ranged aoe. give wych and wh better aoe. atm u dont have spam aoe just 1 finisher, while atehr aoe clases perform bette, and are more whanted into wb.
also recent weapon/armor proces are huge nerf for ranged. they trigger only direct not on dots. melle>ranged aoe to apply weapon/armor proces.
weird balancing ,all balance should be around wb/zerg because ppl pushed their 24aoe, byt nerf heavy blow? nerf ranged aoe order , push tham play didferent clases (wl). byt same time wh/wych has shity aoe and no place in org wb.

[reynor007]

I completely agree, almost any desrto class has huge advantages compared to order we, choosen, magus, sham, sh, dok, even choppa solo became stronger after adding a new ability
and to be honest, at the moment the only class that is possible to play solo with an order is AM 50rr def we in dominator will kill any class due to witchbrew 700+dmg I don’t think anyone is interested in playing knowing that you don’t have a single chance to win the battle

So its been some time.

Reynor here is how you kill that unkillable 50 WB WE:
1. Get your corp mitigation to 40%, since it works fine vs procs. Plenty of classes have corp buffs on order, including an IB. In addition, all dwarfs have corp resist racial tactic, if you are worried that much. Also, resist lini was buffed some time ago to give +360 to all resists.
That alone will turn 700 WB into 420 WB.
2. Have enough dmg to kill the WE past the regen. Again, several classes on order can do that.

Now to go into numbers. It takes 16.8 resist to get 1% mitigation, so 16.8 * 40= 672 corp resist needed for cap. 672- 360 lini = 312 corp resist base, which any class has at 40.

So all it takes to kill 1v1 that unkillable WE is any decent dps on order using resist lini.

Edit: And for that matter, the very same lini will add 21.4% extra mitigation vs sham which order complains about so much, as well as vs magus/ sorc/ chosen in most builds/ most of dok's lifetaps.

you are definitely right, will you show us how to do what? I'll go to my we, and you can choose any class

[Faction69]

Tho I play WE I would still be happy to see the regen builds get gutted because thematically it makes no sense.

Depends really- if you look at WE trees, only one of them is about backstabbing and crits. Carnage is all about bruiser style frontal dmg. While Suffering is all about slowly killing poisons and surviving till those do the job- so regen builds fit in there thematically very fine.

Actually if you look at original Warhammer Witch Elf lore, is doesn't actually has anything about stealth- its all about frontal assault and poisons.

https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Witch_Elves

While middle tree is clearly focused on dots and ailments, there's nothing about that which indicates some sort of tank style character that beats others through virtue of having enough tank stats+health regen to just outlast them by mitigating their damage to the point that regen outheals it. Perhaps such a build would use the tank offsets parts of which do have regen on them. But not to the absurd levels you can stack if you go for it above all other stats. And it (hopefully) would still need offensive stats because wracking pains and envenomed blade do scale with str/melee power.

A viable dot spec would be awesome to have, but regen+WB is not that spec.

That said unless WE gets a viable general use finisher aside from WB, everyone is going to be forced into using it anyway. Puncture often does less dmg than a single AW.

[wildwindblows]

Not sure if trolling or serious.
But atleast i had a good laugh.

bro, if you do not have a high understanding of the game, then you will probably have a strong frontal opponent, regardless of whether you play order or destro but anyone who knows the game well will say that at the moment destro is much stronger, all order classes except WL received very strong nerfs

What do you think about current state of mara?

[knick]

this never ending discussion this is better than that bla bla

in the end both sides have super strong abilities and depending on what side you play its harass you more or less.

As marauder i dont care about WE with witchbrew
as WL i dont care about WH Repel Blasphemy 5 sec **** what is more a moral every 30 sec

in my eyes the topic died the moment as the topic creator postet his one sided order<destro stuff

no content just fuel to blow up the forum

[Absinth]

[Biased rant about how order bad, destro too op etc.]

ahh yes the point of view sits on the point of sitting, roll a destro char, farm it and try to solo roam on destro with "superior classes" i bet in 30 days you will come back cry about how order is op in solo roam. The same goes for all of the soloq experience. And this forum post is just classical "i want attention" post type beat.

Anyways, SH/SW debate, can't talk much personally i would say SW is stronger based on what rSH players i know say. Not to say that SW's are old WH players that now group with 4-6 rSW spamming everyone they see to death.

Magus/engiee debate, the issue with your view is that magus is mostly otp class for people who enjoy pain too much, granted now it starts getting traction but we still have only 45 maguses that are rr80 (over 2x less than avarage) Both are not mirrors and both are for different playstyles, you dont see magus in wb play but you see engiee. engiee also works for solo roam the same way magus works and deftard engiee still hards quite hard. It's just that all weak magus players have stopped playing way before they reached anywhere close to bis.

WE/WH - mostly issue with BAL not being spirit damage, make it spirit and both classes are quite even and both would run deftard. The issue is that no matter what you do with that class except removing it you gonna have people complaining, nerf damage too much -> welcome deftard regen, nerf survivability -> glasscannon builds, nerf both -> the class players will cry

Choppa/SL - The difference is mainly with proc synergy where the new ability of choppas just works better for that, remove it and slayers comes back as king. In fact the current time is really flawed and if we compare st spec's the slayer still is better.

Chosen/KOTBs - Both are the same level of annoying, both are as good the difference is just that kotbs kills with reflect while running deftard snb while chosen runs 2h and can output some damage.

Shaman/Archmage - I can not agree with you about shamans being monstrosity, both are, especially AM with a spammable dot that removes 5% of your damage and reduces your crit chance by 5%, puddle removes init instead of other stuff that shaman does making it even better, not to talk about other stuff. although from the big perspective both are quite monstrosities for solo roam since they can do great dmg while still having good self heal capability.

I also see that you left mara/wl to keep your list order biased as much as possible when order has a WL monstrosity that can solo roam in AOE spec and still be a monster... 2/10 bait because i answered.

[juzzieb]

Tho I play WE I would still be happy to see the regen builds get gutted because thematically it makes no sense.

Depends really- if you look at WE trees, only one of them is about backstabbing and crits. Carnage is all about bruiser style frontal dmg. While Suffering is all about slowly killing poisons and surviving till those do the job- so regen builds fit in there thematically very fine.

Actually if you look at original Warhammer Witch Elf lore, is doesn't actually has anything about stealth- its all about frontal assault and poisons.

https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Witch_Elves

Regen WE is actually the most lore accurate version of the WE. Would be a real shame to remove that without giving them a viable bruiserish option to replace that... Witch Elf being a WoW rogue is just lol. Where is the "Witch" part of that? Regen WE isn't a perfect representation but its much closer.. Won't comment on who might get it right because we know that one is bannable.

As a destro main that plays solo or small scale a lot I have to admit destro have a huge advantage in that area of the game but you started the whole thread off with a fail saying that SH>SW...that's one of the few order classes that are undoubtedly better on order than Des in small scale.

[Mergrim]

SH > SW - with disarm off gcd and usable while stunned (lol). SW has to go melee and change a stance first.
Magus > Engi - Can just stack toughness wounds and not worry about wpnskill and can just kite and not sit their next to that stupid beer barrel pretending they are tanky.
WE > WH - regen spec need I say more
chopper > SL
Chosen > kotbs
Shaman ( a complete monstrosity solo ) > archmage - even tho it loses 1v1 to AM it can kite well and be unkillable vs just about anything else.

This isn't helped by the fact WH is pretty nerfed and so now are IB and SM which used to be better small scale classes. Meanwhile destro get to keep their S+ tier roamers intact.

SW>SH..If your only argument is disarm, we have nothing to talk about. SW is currently one of the most over-the-top classes. I currently have almost 95% armor penetration...combine it with 25% crit dmg buff. People still think that he is weak after the changes from BA and SFA, Since then we have received 25% crit dmg and better proc from the Triumphant. In return, Melle squig and range got a big nerf.

WE=WH Met a regen WE(80+) today on my 54rr shield wp. I couldn't kill her, just like she couldn't kill me, 2 additional WE appeared, more for damage, I killed one, and the other 2 couldn't do anything else. I laughed twice and went on my way. After ruthleas assault nerf this class is dead for me.

chopper=slayer. Both class are equal now. Choppa have nice dot now that was removed from melle squig with no reason, but we also have rampage buff(yes BUFF, it doesn't remove rage, no GCD, now it's worth using). It's a pity that both classes were neutered. Wild choopin/wild swing, no escape/wot's da rush dmg nerfed to the ground. Nowadays you don't have to be a good player to be a good slayer/choppa, the changes making class a 1 button character are bad.

Chosen=kotbs. Personally, I think kotbz is a little better, but let's say they are equal.
Shaman=AM. Almost nothing to say here. Both class had huge nerf, and not fun to play anymore for me.

To sum up, everything is going in the wrong direction. Making the game easier and making classes not use their mechanics is not a good solution. Everything goes towards playing with one button and requiring almost nothing from the player.