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Luth
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Melee Combat Mechanics

Post#1 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:05 am

Maybe this is some usefull information on combat mechanics (don't know if the information is up-to-date):

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Warhammer Online - Melee Combat Mechanics

INTRODUCTION

Based on my experiences in WoW, I developed a passion for simulating combat, especially melee combat. Finding the gear combinations for attaining my character’s maximum Damage Per Second (DPS) was the foundation of those exercises on both my rogue Discoepfeand and my shaman Disquette. The information in this post is intended to be the foundation for those people who wish to do the same in Warhammer: Age of Reckoning (WAR).

DPS AND THEORYCRAFTING IN WAR

WAR, for better or worse, is primarily a PvP (or RvR, actually) game at heart. As a result, sustained DPS is often not going to be the concern of the players, who will instead be focused on burst damage as much as sustained damage. There are, however, some high-end PvE aspects that the developer (Mythic Entertainment) has alluded to. I don’t particularly care how useful this information is to the “average RvR player”, to be quite frank. My desire in this game isn’t to gain knowledge for the purpose of using it as Mythic intended, but simply to know and explain it for those who might care about the PvE portions of the game. As might be evident from my writing style, I’m getting older and am finding happiness in different things than I used to. As such, this blog is here for my own edification, and if you don’t like it or my motivations, feel free to stop reading - I’ll never know the difference ;-)

So, with that all out of the way…

BASIC STATS TO KNOW

1. Strength - this increases your auto-attack melee dps, all other things remaining the same, by 0.1 dps per strength.
2. Toughness - this stat, which both players and mobs have as a characteristic, is the inverse of strength (with respect to damage - your strength also effects your target’s chance to parry your attacks. That’s irrelevant for this post). Explicitly, it reduces the dps done to you by 0.1 dps / toughness.
3. Weapon DPS - the damage per second inherent in every weapon. It’s interesting to note that WAR is not like WoW - there is no variability from hit to hit. It’s all a mathematical formula with no randomness to the outcome of each hit. Crits may be an exception (I haven’t started work on them yet).
4. Weapon Speed - how many seconds it takes for each auto-attack swing of your weapon.

OTHER BASICS TO KNOW

* Your combat log will show not only the damage you did, but also how much was mitigated by armor. As an example, you might see the following: Your attack hits Evil Ogre for 80 damage. (20 mitigated)
* Very Important Disclaimer!!! So far the formulas I’m comfortable sharing in this post have proved to be accurate within 1 point of damage in all the testing I’ve done. I cannot, however, say without a doubt that these are the formulas being used. The best thing we can do is test for ourselves and draw our own conclusions. Having other people confirm these formulas via in-game testing would be nifty, so drop me a line if you do so.

ON TO THE SHOW!

Basic Attack Damage when single-wielding

Your auto-attack damage is calculated by a fairly simple formula. We’ll use some of those stats we covered earlier. I’ll use the following variable names:

* Strength: Str
* Target’s Tougness: Tou
* Strength Bonus: StrBon (I’m going to use this so as to simplify the way the formulas look. So far I haven’t found any damage calculations which use Str but not Tou, or vice versa, and when they’re used together, so far they’ve always been seen in the form Str-Tou).
* Weapon DPS: Wdps
* Weapon Speed: Wspeed
* Armor Mitigation %: Armor
Please note - throughout this whole post I’ll just be using a single term for armor. Weapon Skill affects armor penetration. That’s a very uninteresting stat for me, as it’s essentially a linear effect. A fully accurate formula would use (ArmorMitigation =
TargetArmor%*(1-WeaponSkillArmorPenetration%). If you’re writing a calculator, be sure to include that term, but this thing is complicated enough without that uninteresting term to further expand these large formulas. Thanks to Wodin and Hermit for pointing out that I shouldn’t leave this out all together without and explanation!
* Damage per Attack: Dmg (I’m specifying this so that it’s not confused with Damage per Second).


Dmg = ((StrBon/10) + Wdps)*(Wspeed)*(1-Armor)

Let’s do an example! Let’s say you’re a White Lion, fighting a Vicious Spider (made up name) and the actors have the following stats:

White Lion Str: 350
Spider Tou: 250
White Lion Wdps: 25
White Lion Wspeed: 2.0 seconds / swing
(thanks for catching this labeling error, DPS_squared)
Spider Armor Mitigation: 15% (Incidentally, this is about half of what is typical for even con’d mobs)

Using our formula above, each melee auto-attack will do…

Dmg = (((Str - Tou)/10) + Wdps)*(Wspeed)*(1-Armor)
Dmg = (((350-250)/10) + 25)*2.0*(1-15%)
Dmg = ((100/10) + 25)*2.0*85%
Dmg = (10+25)*2*0.85
Dmg = 59.5

This will appear in your combat log as:
Your attack hits Vicious Spider for 59 damage. (11 mitigated)

Ok, so what’s happening here? Lots of interesting things! To wit:

1. Rounding - It should come as no surprise that WAR, like other MMOs, rounds abilities to whole numbers for display purposes. This does not mean that the game doesn’t process fractions - I’ve seen one of my HoTs tick for varying amounts, sometimes 268, sometimes 267, which I can only imagine is the game keeping track of the fractions internally in the server (or perhaps the client, I don’t know).
2. There are two forms of damage mitigation, but you’re only seeing one explicitly - Only the armor mitigation shows up in the display window, but remember that the target’s toughness is also factoring in to reduce the damage.

Calculating Mob Damage Reduction

You might ask how to figure out the opponent’s armor and toughness values. I sure needed to know that in order to reverse-engineer the more complicated attack types. Let’s go through that process (Hey, I spent the hours to figure out how to calculate these, so you’re gonna read about it )

* Armor - this was the easy one. For every auto attack, on every character, it was pretty straightforward to see that comparing the amount mitigated in the combat log to the damage done always had the same ratio when all else remained the same (target mob, your str, weapon, etc). And that’s that! Ok, except for crits, which I keep coming back to as being special. Other blogs or articles will probably cover how that is working in game at the moment.
* Toughness - this was the harder one. The first thing is to realize that mobs have this! Coming from WoW where the only mitigation stat against physical attacks was armor, I had to expand my horizons a bit to understand that this was not only present, but was *invisible* (ooooh, ahhhhh). What I mean by that is that it doesn’t show in the mitigation portion of the combat log. However, if you do a few tests on mobs, you find that regardless of your weapon dps, your strenght, your weapon speed, etc, you are constantly hitting the mob for a consistent amount less than you would expect if you used just strength in a simple calculation.You might find it helpful, if you want to do dps testing for yourself, to have a set of guidelines to follow for calculating a mob’s toughness.

Here’s what you do - look at your stats, auto attack a mob, and back into the toughness using the following procedure:

1. Record your Str, Wdps, and Wspeed
2. Auto attack the mob, and add the mitigated and non-mitigated portions together. For instance, for the combat log entry Your attack hits Vicious Spider for 59 damage. (11 mitigated), The number you would want to record is 59+11 = 70. We’ll call this number TDmg (for Total Damage, including armor mitigation)
3. Use the formula below, which you can re-create yourself by undoing the process we used above if you like to prove things out to yourself:

tou = 10*((((0.1*Str + Wdps)*Wspeed)-TDmg)/Wspeed)

That might need an example to make sure I got my parentheses right! Let’s use the spider example from above. Remember from before, that:

White Lion Str: 350
White Lion Wdps: 25
White Lion Wspeed: 2.0 seconds / swing
Spider Armor Mitigation: 15% (this is completely unnecessary information for this calculation)

Add to that our two new data points:

Mitigated Damage: 11
Final Actual Damage to Mob: 59
TDmg = 70 (the 2 lines above added together)

Let’s calculate it out using the formulas shown above:

tou = 10*((((0.1*Str + Wdps)*Wspeed)-TDmg)/Wspeed)
tou = 10*((((0.1*350 + 25)*2.0)-(59+11))/Wspeed)
tou = 10*((((35+25)*2.0)-70)/2)
tou = 10*((120-70)/2)
tou = 250

Yay, it works! It matches the toughness we had in the assumptions used for the first example. If you’re theorycrafting/testing dps on mobs, build this formula into a spreadsheet - you’re going to use it a lot ;-)

Calculation Damage of Special Attacks
(Note: I haven’t looked at special attack damage while dual-wielding. This only works for single wielding at the moment)

(Edit for Update! Erdrick figured out the Dmg for special attacks while dual-wielding, yay!)

Unlike DAoC, and like some classes in WoW, WAR intertwines special attacks with your auto attack, as opposed to having a queue’ing system. As a result of not using a queue system, Mythic did something very smart for calculating special attack damage - they treat the weapon speed for the damage calculations as if it were the speed of the ability. Most special abilities are instant. Since each instant attack invokes the global cooldown of 1.5 seconds, 1.5 is the speed value used for most specials, whether you’re using a big 2 hander or a quick dagger. This is in contrast to WoW in which weapon speeds are normalized for instant attacks by their type (2.4 for swords, 1.7 for daggers, 3.something for 2 handers).

Another wrinkle thrown into the special attack calculations is that strength counts for twice as much! Above we noted that, per the character screen, each point of Str added 0.1 dps to your attacks. Also per the character screen, you will see that for special abilities, each point of Str adds 0.2 dps. What the character screen does not tell you is that your opponent’s toughness mitigation is also doubled per point. This makes things very convenient for us, as that doubling for both means that we can continue using our meta-stat: StrBon (Your strength - Your target’s toughness)

Now we have two facts that help us calculate the damage - weapon speed of 1.5 (usually) and StrBonus doubling - but we need more. MORE BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!

First, we have the ability’s damage itself. An ability may something like “A cruel blow which does 63 damage to your target and causes it to hate you greatly”.

Second, we have the special attack weapon dps modifier. This modifier, from my testing, is set to 150%. This means that if your weapon was 100dps, the damage of your special attack would be increased by 150 due to its weapon dps.

As noted by EasymodeX in the comments section, that’s equal to the multiplier for strength, which is a pleasing number - it again is the swing time of an instant attack.

So, let’s put that all together into a formula that captures these different facts. We’ll use the term Admg to refer to any extra damage you get from the special attack, per its tooltip, and we’ll use the term Sdmg to refer to the total damage of your special attacks after all the calculations are done.

Sdmg = (((StrBon/10)*2 + Wdps)*1.5 + Admg)*(1-armor)
(single wield only)


(note that Wspeed doesn’t factor in here - the special ability damage calculation is completely weapon-speed-free. You’ll be seeing this fact referred to again later in this post.)

As usual, let’s do an example so you can see it working. Assume the following:

White Lion Str: 323
Spider Tou: 264
White Lion Wdps: 51
White Lion Admg: 62
Spider Armor Mitigation: 15%

Sdmg = ((StrBon/10)*2*1.5 + Wdps*150% + Admg)*(1-Armor)
Sdmg = (((323-264)/10)*3 + 51*150% + 62) * (1 - 15%)
Sdmg = (5.9*3 + 76.5 + 62) * 0.85
Sdmg = 156.2 * 0.85
Sdmg = Your special attack hits Vicious Spider for 133 damage. (23 mitigated)

Update as indicated above, big thanks to Erdrick for figuring out special damage while single *or* dual wielding. That dude has more patience than me, that’s for sure Here it is:

Sdmg = ((StrBon/10)*2*1.5 + MHdps*150% + OFdps*52.5%+ Admg)*(1-Armor)

(Update on 9/18/08 - OFdps coefficient may be 67.5% now. I’ll have to check when I have a reasonably high level dual-wielder. Right now I only have a WP)

Alrighty, I hope that’s all clear, because the next formula (the last in this article) is the real doozy. Or maybe it’s not. But the fact is, it was horrible trying to figure it the next formula, and I had a victory beer when I finally got it working. However, even though it has so far been within 1 damage of actual tests each time I’ve done this, it looks so odd that I don’t have 100% confidence in its accuracy. I do have enough confidence in it to post it, and hopefully it stands up to further testing. If it doesn’t, so be it, and I’ll be very open to seeing a more accurate formula. So then, without further ado, let’s talk about…

Off-Hand Damage, when it happens, and how it’s calculated

Mythic has taken a novel (to me at least) approach to the mechanics of dual-wielding melee weapons. Instead of the off-hand weapon always swinging as it does in WoW, the chance for the off-hand weapon to swing is a simple proc from the main hand. A certain percentage of the time when the main hand hits, the offhand will also hit as an auto-attack. I don’t know what that percentage is. It’s probably documented somewhere, and if not, that’s a trivial task to empirically determine the proc chance (probably, who knows if they threw in something odd in the determination).

Edit 9/26/08 - The poster Star in the comments sections has been awesome and tested offhand proc rates! Here are his findings (comment copied directly):

Just calculated the proc chance of the offhand hit, and it results 0?46. But should need a more extended review.

The difficulty is that, in the combat log, offhand hits appear just like the mainhand hits (so you have to play with the time of the attack and the damage).

Also, you can get parried or blocked you main hand attack, and the offhand attack may still proc.

The part that I cared about was how to calculate how much damage each off-hand swing would cause when one did happen. So then why go into the proc-chance explanation? It is because that concept is intrinsic to understanding how and why the off-hand damage is what it is. In contrast to the other sections, I’m going to start us off with the damage formula, and then explain it after the fact. First, however, we need some new terminology to add to our stable of stats:

* Our current familiar stats:
* Strength: Str
* Target’s Tougness: Tou
* Strength Bonus: StrBon
* Armor Mitigation %: Armor
* Off-Hand Damage per Attack: OHDmg
* Our new stats:
* Off-Hand Weapon DPS: OHWdps
* Off-Hand Weapon Speed: OHWspeed
* Main-Hand Weapon Speed: MHWspeed
* Off-Hand Weapon DPS penalty: OHWPen
* Off-Hand Strength penalty: OHSPen

Alrighty, so here’s the formula:

OHDmg / (1 - Armor) =

(StrBon*OHSPen/10)*OHWSpeed
+ (MHWSpeed-OHWSpeed)*OHWdps
+ OHWdps*OHWSpeed*OHWPen)

ZOMG! I thought I was going to cry figuring that out. 4 seriously.

At this point, you have to take on faith that through trial and error and a few beers, I figured out the following constant values, and that they’re correct:

OHWPen = 0.9
OHSPen = 0.5

By now, you know what comes next - An Example!

Let’s lay out the relevant stats…

Str: 391
Tou: 291
StrBon: 100 (Remember, this is just Str - Tou)
Armor: 15%
OHWdps: 38.0
OHWspeed: 2.2
MHWspeed: 2.6
OHWPen: 0.9
OHSPen: 0.5

OHDmg / (1 - Armor) =
(StrBon*OHSPen/10)*OHWSpeed
+ (MHWSpeed-OHWSpeed)*OHWdps
+ OHWdps*OHWSpeed*OHWPen

OHDmg / (1 - 0.15) =
(100*0.5/10)*2.2
+ (2.6-2.2)*38.0
+ 38.0*2.2*0.9

OHDmg / (1 - 0.15) =
(100*0.5/10)*2.2
+ (2.6-2.2)*38.0
+ 38.0*2.2*0.9

OHDmg / (0.85) = 5*2.2 + 0.4*38.0 + 38.0*2.2*0.9
OHDmg / (0.85) = 11 + 15.2 + 75.2
OHDmg = 101.4 * 0.85
OHDmg = Your special attack hits Vicious Spider for 86 damage. (15 mitigated)

hey.

HEY.

HEY!!!!! Wake up! You still with me???

Ok, good, we’re almost done. I want to explain what’s happening with the formula above so you can have a sense of how well thought out Mythic’s offhand damage mechanic is.

First, as we discovered before, note that your special attacks aren’t diminished by using a fast weapon since special attacks don’t factor weapon speed into the damage calculations. Since off-hand weapon swings are procs of main-hand attacks, Mythic wanted to make sure that people didn’t abuse this mechanic by having a really fast main-hand to proc a hard hitting slow off-hand. Thus, they prorate the damage of your off-hand attacks by the difference between it and your main-hand weapon speed. The part of the calculation where you see this is in the term: (MHWSpeed-OHWSpeed)*OHWdps. The first term in the formula is also interesting in that you see Mythic halving the Strength bonus compared to a main-hand attack. Both that, and the last term of the formula (in which you see that Mythic has reduced the standard (weapon dps * weapon speed) by 10%) seem to be their attempt to tune the offhand damage to whatever internal goals they have. That’s my guess, at least, because it’s pretty damn complicated if that isn’t why they made this monstrosity of an off-hand-auto-attack-damage-calculation!


Conclusion

Melee DPS calculations in WAR are not nearly as simple as one might expect at first glance. While even these very primal calculations are relatively complex, there are even more complex formulas that will need to be developed to explain things such as off-hand crit damage.

And finally, I must reiterate: These formulas are my attempt at matching up mathematical formulas with observed results in WAR. I cannot guarantee that any of these are correct. However, they match up with my in game experiences so far.

I guess this is then end of my first blog post EVAR! If you have any comments or questions, feel free to post them in the response section (assuming it works, we’ll see if i get this blog thing figured out or not) ;-)

- Disquette
(Shaman, Disciple of Khaine, and ElitistJerks.com forum member)

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Source: http://www.wayne2k1.com/showthread.php? ... 72363115b4

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User avatar
Luth
Posts: 2857

Re: Melee Combat Mechanics

Post#2 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:06 am

About Warrior Priest books (as stated above, i don't know if this is true, but maybe some help):

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First off lets make sure everyone is aware that:

1. Books have DPS (check Realm War to see this)
2. We are actually dual wielding with a book

Next What I want to prove:
1. That the more you stack strength the better dual wielding becomes compared to using a 2-hander.
2. Rule of Thumb: When you want to compare a specific 2-hander to a specific Book with main hand combination use this formula…
(2-hander DPs) vs. (1hander dps + 45% book dps)

I used Disquette's formulas and started calculating a basic comparison of dual wield vs. 2 handed weapons.

The formulas to note:
1. MHDmg = (((Str - Tou)/10) + Wdps)*(Wspeed)*(1-Armor)
2. OHDmg / (1 - Armor) = (StrBon*.5/10)*OHWSpeed+ (MHWSpeed-OHWSpeed)*OHWdps+ OHWdps*OHWSpeed*.9
3. Sdmg = (((StrBon/10)*2 + Wdps)*1.5 + Admg)*(1-armor)
4. Sdmg = ((StrBon/10)*2*1.5 + MHdps*150% + OFdps*67.5%+ Admg)*(1-Armor)

What these mean:
1. Gives you your Auto damage for Main hand or 2hander
2. Gives you your auto damage for Off hand (note also from Disquette’s guider this damage is a proc of about 46% off your main hand auto attack)
note: this leads me to the conclusion later that WAR’s preferred off-hand damage percent is 45% since that is also the percentage found in the special attacks formula for off-hand
3. Special attack damage for 1 weapon
4. Special attack damage for dual weapons

What I wanted to find out was a general Rule of Thumb to follow for judging if a certain Book and 1hander was better than a certain 2 hander, to help decide on quest loot and what to use.

What I did:
Auto Attacks: Thanks to the Renown gear I used a test case of a weapons and a book of the same level/rarity (note it seems usually a book of the same level/rarity as a 1-handed hammer was the same dps or very close 90% of the time. Then I used a set STRBon (This is your strength - targets toughness) and armor (really just ignore armor since it’s a straight % reduction at the end). I calculated first the damage of the 1-hander auto attack, then figured the off-hand auto attack and multiplied that by the chance to proc (.46). Totalling this I got the Damage I would expect to get using a book+ 1hander. I then set this to the MHDmg variable and calculated what DPS a 2 hander would need to get the same result.

The results were interesting. What occurs is that the larger your STRBon (the diffrenece of your strength to the targets toughness) the better dual wielding becomes, kind of the opposite of what I expected, since it seems a massive 2-hander should benefit more from strength. The results I found were from about 40% to 60% of the off-hand weapon gets added to the 1 hander’s dps for low-average and high stats for that level of weapon (this is a simplification but is exactly what I wanted). So strangely if you stack strength, the more likely it is that Dual wielding will benefit you considering equal level/rarity weapons.

So for auto attack the Rule of Thumb would be Take the 1-hander’s dps and add in 50% of the book’s dps (search for the book online and you will find its DPS since its hidden in game). This is a comparable DPS for a 2 hander to give you about the same result for WHITE Damage.

Special Attacks:
This was much easier to calculate since you can see directly from the Formula the relationship. 2-handers and 1-handers will grant 150% of their dps (the whole attack time factor) and off hand weapons grant you 67.5%. So 67.5/150 = 45%. This is great, it means for considering special attacks we can compare a specific 2-handers DPS to the value of a 1-hander’s dps plus 45% of the off hand. Very close to the result for white damage.

Since both results were around 45% and white damage varied based on the STRBon variable i figured 45% is the safe factor to use in comparison.
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Source: http://www.aureusknights.com/showthread ... ms-and-Dps
Last edited by Luth on Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Kragg
Posts: 1657

Re: Melee Combat Mechanics

Post#3 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:17 am

Great work! Maybe you should make a combat calculator of some sort?
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User avatar
Luth
Posts: 2857

Re: Melee Combat Mechanics

Post#4 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:35 am

Kragg wrote:Great work! Maybe you should make a combat calculator of some sort?
Oh nooo, it's not my work :!:

This information is from disquette's Webblog: http://disquette.wordpress.com/warhamme ... mechanics/
The Link is dead for a while, but i found the reposts on other forums. I think the devs know most (or all) of this, but maybe it's of some help.

Unfortunately i am not very good in math, so writing a combat calculator is probably out of my range... :oops:

But there is a calculator for defensive stats: http://tools.idrinth.de/tank/

Let me warn you: it's from an elf, so maybe it will blow up your computer or the whole house... :lol:

User avatar
Bozzax
Posts: 2103

Re: Melee Combat Mechanics

Post#5 » Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:49 pm

This belongs here and Bruglir for president

salvaged by altgrimreaper » Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:55 am
I think I found it:

Combat formula stuff, backed up from bioware forum!

Postby Bruglir » 20 December 2013, 19:05
Hokay....

let me start by sayin, sorry this has taken me so long to put online. and also that this isn't intended to be a walkthrough/step by step guide to how combat works in WAR. although it's certainly the basis for the damage calculation tools i've been building.

i'll also say that this is an ongoing work in progress, and some of the formula is things that i've tested so extensively that i know it must be that way, and other parts are theorys i haven't had a chance to completely test yet (i'll try to label those parts as i go) but "seem" to be largely correct. i'm more than open to scrutiny too, and when asked i'll provide whatever evidence i have to support theoretical data.

you will also see that "effective rank" is used in most of the formula. the way effective rank is worked out is fairly simple, if your renown rank is above 80, you do:
rank+TRUNC((renown-80)/4)=effective rank
TRUNC = truncate (round down)

for example, rank 40 renown rank 87 would be:
40+TRUNC((87-80)/4)= effective rank 41

IF at any point you see "<defender rank>", then it is the defender rank ONLY, and NOT their effective rank.

another important thing to note is that all of the combat formulas are truncated on the server end (As far as i'm aware anyway).

let's start with defences.
All defence calculations are done in two parts, the first is a statistic check made up of offensive vs defensive stats, they are coupled as follows:
Ballistics skill vs Initiative = Dodge

Strength vs Weapon skill = Parry

Intelligence vs Willpower = Disrupt


the first part of the formula is:
<defensive stat>/<offensive stat>*0.075 = base defence chance (this is capped at 25%)


the second part of the formula is:
<defenders increase in defence> - <attackers reduction in defence>


the complete formula is:
(<defensive stat>/<offensive stat>*0.075)+(<defenders increase in defence> - <attackers reduction in defence>


example of the formula in action:
(900 willpower/1050 intelligence*0.075)+(0.1-0.03)=13.42% disrupt chance.


note - your tooltip is often inaccurate as it will ALWAYS show the following as your defence chance (and therefor doesn't take into account actual enemy stats or offensive bonuses they may have):
<defensive stat>/(7.5*<your effective rank>+50)*0.075+<your defence bonus>


example of the above tooltip in action:
900 willpower/(7.5*40+50)+0.1=29.28% disrupt chance (tooltip will show).



BLOCK, is an exception to the above formula, block counters all offensive stats and is also done in two portions, the first being the block rating vs stat.
<shield block rating>/<offensive stat>*0.2 (capped at 50%)


you then add any block bonus the defender has, and deduct any reduced chance to be blocked the attacker has, remember that two handed weapons reduce block by 10%.
(<shield block rating>/<offensive stat>*0.2)+(<defender block bonus> - <attacker block reduction>)


critical hit rates are affected by defenders initiative vs attackers rank, in the following way:
(7.5*<attacker effective rank>+50)/<defender initiative>/10


you then add any crit chance modifiers from the attacker, and subtract any crit chance reduction the defender has:
((7.5*<attacker effective rank>+50)/<defender initiative>/10)+(<attacker crit bonus> - <defender crit reduction>)


again, important things to note:
in ALL cases, your tooltip will always show the ATTACKER values, as (7.5*<YOUR effective rank>+50).

any ability that says "will almost always" or "virtually", means +/- 100% (depending if it's "will almost always block/parry/critically hit" would add 100%. or "is virtually undefendable" would subtract 100%)

any absolutes such as "you will never" or "undefendable" generally mean multiply the end result (example: for healer sovereign 8 piece bonus, multiply the complete crit chance formula by 0)


the way damage is calculated, general points:
Damage appears to be calculated in sequence, starting with tooltip damage (if using abilities) which then gains a dps contribution from weapons (or not in the case of most magic abilities) and then gains stat contribution. this total is then mitigated by armour or resistances.

mitigation from toughness is calculated during the stat contribution part of the formula.

damage bonus and reduced damage are calculated from the base damage and the ATTACKING stat contribution, but before toughness is applied.

critical damage is calculated after toughness is applied but before mitigation from armour or resistances.

all bonuses to damage (base or critical) are additive.

all reduction to damage (base or critical) is multiplicative.

stats are divided by 5 for abilities, and 10 for auto attacks.

dps contribution differs depending on duelwield or single weapon.

duelwield dps contribution is: <mainhand dps> + <offhand dps> * 0.45

single weapon dps contribution is: <mainhand dps>


so a breakdown of the formula would look like this:
((<tooltip> + <dps contribution>)+(<stat coefficient>*(<offensive stat>+<power stat>)/5))*(1+<damage bonus>)*(1-<damage reduction>)-(<stat coefficient>*(<toughness>+fortitude>)/5) = <damage>

<damage>*(1+((0.5+<crit damage bonus>)*(1-<crit damage reduction>))) = <crit damage>

<damage> OR <crit damage> * (1-<mitigation from armour or resistances>) = <final damage>



Auto Attack formulas:
duelwield auto attack strikes have a main hand hit, and a 45% proc rate for an offhand hit.

two handed weapons do not get offhand procs (i've been asked so i felt the need to point it out).

for two handed weapons, calculate as a main hand weapon

dps


so, as a general rule the following is a breakdown of auto attacks:
((<mainhand dps>*<mainhand weaponspeed>)+(<mainhand weaponspeed>*(<offensive stat>+<power stat>)/10))*(1+<damage bonus>)*(1-<damage reduction>)-(<stat coefficient>*(<toughness>+fortitude>)/10) = <mainhand damage>

((<mainhand weaponspeed>-<offhand weaponspeed>)*<offhand dps>+<offhand dps>*<offhand weaponspeed>*0.9)+(<mainhand weaponspeed>*(<offensive stat>+<power stat>)/10))*(1+<damage bonus>)*(1-<damage reduction>)-(<stat coefficient>*(<toughness>+fortitude>)/10) = <offhand damage>

multiply <mainhand damage> or <offhand damage> by the critical damage formula above, for critical strikes.

on to mitigation!
anything that says it ignores a % of armour/resistances, does so at the END of the armour/resistance VALUE calculation, and is multiplicative.

abilities that ignore a set value of armour/resistances, do so at the beginning of the armour/resistance VALUE calculation and is additive.


Resistances are pretty easy to work out, there's an "IF" calculation in the formula dependant on whether a player has more than 40% mitigation from a resistance, if they do then anything above it is divided by 3.

resistances are therefor calculated like this:
IF (<defender resistance>/(<attacker effective rank>*8.4))*0.2 = more than 0.4

THEN DO ((<defender resistance>/(<attacker effective rank>*8.4))*0.2-0.4)/3+0.4

ELSE DO (<defender resistance>/(<attacker effective rank>*8.4))*0.2



Physical mitigation values were somewhat annoying to figure out. much like everything else they're tied into a players effective rank, however it's done in a strange way. what appears to be happening (and i welcome feedback on this) is that once you move past renown rank 84 (effective rank 41 and onwards) the game adjusts the amount of weaponskill you have. if you are renown rank 83 or lower then it doesn't affect you too badly, although your penetration level will change as you rank up. the armour penetration formula looks like this:
IF ATTACKER RENOWN GREATER THAN 80

THEN DO (<attacker WS>*(40/<attacker effective rank>))/(7.5*<defender rank>+50)*0.25=<attacker pen>

ELSE DO <attacker WS>/(7.5*<defender rank>+50)*0.25=<attacker pen>

you add any armour penetration bonus for the attacker, and subtract any reduced armour penetration the defender has from <attacker pen>


the formula for defender mitigation is:
<defender armour>/(<attacker effective rank>*44)*0.4 = <defender mit>


the complete formula then, is:
<defender mit>*(1-(<attacker pen>+<attacker pen bonus>-<defender pen reduction>))=<total mitigation>



for a complex example of the order in which the formula is carried out, we'll use a marauder who has impale, and the piercing bite tactic (ignores 50% of your opponents armour), our defender will start with 5000 armour, and impale will ignore 900.
((<defender armour>-<impale>)*(1-<piercing bite>))/(<attacker effective rank>*44)*0.4

((5000-900)*(1-0.5))/(40*44)*0.4


or in the case of a witch hunter or witch elf using torment or agonising wound, that ability would do the following:
(defender armour * (1 - 1))/(40*44)*0.4

thereby reducing the armour to 0.
Last edited by Bozzax on Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Melee Combat Mechanics

Post#6 » Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:53 pm

DAMAGE, MIGRATION ABSORB values in the combat log

Original post Annaise

The code basically involves the following steps:
1: The weapon dps contribution is calculated first: damage1 = weapon dps x weapon speed

2: Offensive stat term is calculated next: damage2 = (offensive stat + power)/10 x weapon speed

3: Mitigation due to toughness is calculated next: mit1 = (toughness + fort)/10 x weapon speed

4: Then they are combined: damage3 = damage1 + damage2 - mit1

5: class based percentage modifers are applied. These include such things as choppa/slayer's rage mechanic, SW's Vengeance of Nagarythe, class based tactics such as Flanking, Taste of Blood, etc.
damage4 = damage3 x class based % modifiers

6: Mitigation due to armor is calculated: mit2 = damage4 x armor% x (1 - weapon skill armor bypass %)

7: Damage after armor mit is calculated: damage5 = damage4 - mit2

8: Crit damage % modifiers to damage as well as debuffs to this damage from Trivial Blows are applied. Then other % modifiers are applied such as gear-based % modifiers, Live Event % buffs, and % debuffs from things such as detaunts, Challenge, Guard, etc. I'm not sure if class-based % damage debuffs such as Crippling Strikes and Dragon's Talon are applied here or at Step 5.:

damage6 = damage5 x (1 + crit damage %) x (1 + gear damage % modifiers) x (1 + 10% live event buff) x etc..

This is the damage value that appears in the combat log.

9: Total mitigation is calculated by applying the same % modifers from Step 8 to (mit1 + mit2):
total mit = (mit1 + mit2) x (1 + crit damage %) x (1 + gear damage % modifiers) x (1 + 10% live event buff) x etc.

This is the mitigation value that appears in the combat log.
Last edited by Bozzax on Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Melee Combat Mechanics

Post#7 » Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:57 pm

SUBTOPIC BLOCK

Original post Annaise

I did some fairly extensive testing to determine exactly how Block works. These are the conclusions drawn from the results.

Against 1H melee weapons (eg. dual-wield classes, s/b tanks, etc): block % = (20% x block rating on shield / opponent's offensive stat) + 10% +/- other % modifiers

Against ranged attacks (magic abilities of casters, SW/SH/engie's bow/gun abilities and auto-attacks): block % = 20% x block rating on shield / opponent's offensive stat +/- other % modifiers

Against 2H melee weapons: block % = (20% x block rating on shield / opponent's offensive stat) - 10% +/- other % modifiers

With regard to the different weapon types, when it comes to calculating block %, it appears that

1H melee weapons are:

1H melee weapons such as swords, axes, choppas, etc used by the melee classes including mdps and tanks. (I didn't check if this applied to the melee weapons of engies, SWs, and SHs, but I would be surprised if they are not also included in this category.) WHs executions are blocked at the same rate as the class's sword attacks.

Staffs that casters use for their auto-attacks. (Although they have the stats of 2H weapons, the block % versus these weapons receives the same + 10% modifier that 1H melee weapons receive. If you watch the aa animations for these classes, you'll find that the staffs are used in one hand (except for rune priests). I guess that's why they are classified as 1H weapons for this case.)

2H weapons are:
2H weapons used by the melee classes including tanks.

Ranged attacks are:
Magical attacks of casters.

Bow or gun abilities of engie, SW, and SH, including ranged auto-attacks. I didn't check the melee attacks of these classes but I would guess the "block% versus 1H melee formula" will apply to the attacks of these classes when they use their respective melee weapons.

There appears to be a lower limit for block % versus a 2H weapon of about 2.5% + other % modifiers. The -10% modifier doesn't seem to be able to reduce block % below this 2.5% value.

The maximum value that the (20% x block rating / opponent's stat) term can supply seems to be capped at 25%. But Bruglir stated stated in his post in the General Discussion forum that the cap is 50%. The block ratings on the shields are too low for me to test this further with my level 10 toons. Perhaps someone could test this with higher level toons that are at the same level by having a heal-specced AM, etc use their attacks against a tank that has a shield with a high block rating. (Also, there might be lower cap for lower level toons, 25% at level 10 but increasing to 50% at level 40.)
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Re: Melee Combat Mechanics

Post#8 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:47 am

SUBTOPIC RENOWN
MaxHayman wrote:Just need to know how how much xp/renown players should be given and when. Also what counts as a Deathblow? Anyone wanna help me out?
Hope this is of some use

@Deathblow
1. determine the BASE value of the killed player. Approx.. 10*(rank+renown rank)
2. apply any diminishing returns. Example 15 min penalty would be <time since death>/9000
3. distribute renown based on % damage dealt to killed player
4. share renown with ACTIVE group members in range (1/members)
5. assign the renown to the player (and group members)
6. [for each players] adjust renown based on rank + renown rank difference
7. [for each players] apply the players modifiers
8. [for each players] increase player renown and increase the “heal renown pool “of that player
Patch 1.1.0b onwards

• Renown gains: This patch includes a significant fix to the amount of Renown gained in both open Realm vs. Realm combat and Scenarios. The intent of this change is for players to gain Renown based on the differential between a player's Rank and Renown Rank. The examples given below are based on solo Realm vs. Realm confrontations without any sort of bonuses and with both players being of the same Renown Rank (differences between RRs also affect RPs awarded):
o If a Rank 40/Renown Rank 1 solo kills a Rank 31/Renown Rank 1, the Rank 40 will receive 206 Renown as a reward.
o If a Rank 40/Renown Rank 1 solo kills a Rank 18/Renown Rank 1, the Rank 40 will receive 70 Renown as a reward.

Notice that this is a larger reward than the Rank 40 would receive with the previous system (51 and 5 respectively).
Assumptions
• No other changes were made to the formulas after 1.1.0b
• Renown base value is a linear function (y = kx + m)
• How renown gets adjusted is a linear function*
• Only the difference between attacker and the dying defender determines the adjustment

Example a level 5/1 killing a level 15/1 gets adjusted the same amount as a 10/1 killing a 20/1 (diff 10)


Yields
Renown base patch 1.1.0b y = -10.462x + 300.15
(Renown base patch 1.1.0a y = -3.5385x + 82.846)

Thus @41/1 you have a renown base value of ~300

Rank + Renown Rank | 1.1.0b base | 1.1.0a base
Spoiler:
120 878 242
119 871 240
118 864 238
117 857 236
116 849 234
115 842 232
114 835 230
113 827 228
112 820 226
111 813 224
110 805 222
109 798 220
108 791 218
107 783 216
106 776 214
105 769 212
104 761 210
103 754 208
102 747 206
101 739 204
100 732 202
99 725 200
98 717 198
97 710 196
96 703 194
95 695 192
94 688 190
93 681 188
92 674 186
91 666 184
90 659 182
89 652 180
88 644 178
87 637 176
86 630 174
85 622 172
84 615 170
83 608 168
82 600 166
81 593 164
80 586 162
79 578 160
78 571 158
77 564 156
76 556 154
75 549 152
74 542 150
73 534 148
72 527 145
71 520 143
70 512 141
69 505 139
68 498 137
67 490 135
66 483 133
65 476 131
64 469 129
63 461 127
62 454 125
61 447 123
60 439 121
59 432 119
58 425 117
57 417 115
56 410 113
55 403 111
54 395 109
53 388 107
52 381 105
51 373 103
50 366 101
49 359 99
48 351 97
47 344 95
46 337 93
45 329 91
44 322 89
43 315 87
42 307 85
41 300 83
40 293 81
39 286 79
38 278 77
37 271 75
36 264 73
35 256 71
34 249 69
33 242 67
32 234 65
31 227 63
30 220 61
29 212 59
28 205 57
27 198 55
26 190 53
25 183 51
24 176 48
23 168 46
22 161 44
21 154 42
20 146 40
19 139 38
18 132 36
17 124 34
16 117 32
15 110 30
14 102 28
13 95 26
12 88 24
11 81 22
10 73 20
9 66 18
8 59 16
7 51 14
6 44 12
5 37 10
4 29 8
3 22 6
2 15 4
1 7 2
By examining the % change @40/1 the adjustment factor is approximated
Adjustment value in patch 1.1.0b y = -0.0289x + 1.1397*
(Adjustment value in patch 1.1.0a y = -0.0507x + 1.2446)


*obviously it isn't a linear function!

Attacker - Defender | 1.1.0b adjustment | 1.1.0a adjustment
Spoiler:
40 0,00% 0,00%
39 1,26% 0,00%
38 4,15% 0,00%
37 7,04% 0,00%
36 9,93% 0,00%
35 12,82% 0,00%
34 15,71% 0,00%
33 18,60% 0,00%
32 21,49% 0,00%
31 24,38% 0,00%
30 27,27% 0,00%
29 30,16% 0,00%
28 33,05% 0,00%
27 35,94% 0,00%
26 38,83% 0,00%
25 41,72% 0,00%
24 44,61% 2,78%
23 47,50% 7,85%
22 50,39% 12,92%
21 53,28% 17,99%
20 56,17% 23,06%
19 59,06% 28,13%
18 61,95% 33,20%
17 64,84% 38,27%
16 67,73% 43,34%
15 70,62% 48,41%
14 73,51% 53,48%
13 76,40% 58,55%
12 79,29% 63,62%
11 82,18% 68,69%
10 85,07% 73,76%
9 87,96% 78,83%
8 90,85% 83,90%
7 93,74% 88,97%
6 96,63% 94,04%
5 99,52% 99,11%
4 102,41% 104,18%
3 105,30% 109,25%
2 108,19% 114,32%
1 111,08% 119,39%
0 113,97% 124,46%
-1 116,86% 129,53%
-2 119,75% 134,60%
-3 122,64% 139,67%
-4 125,53% 144,74%
-5 128,42% 149,81%
-6 131,31% 154,88%
-7 134,20% 159,95%
-8 137,09% 165,02%
-9 139,98% 170,09%
-10 142,87% 175,16%
-11 145,76% 180,23%
-12 148,65% 185,30%
-13 151,54% 190,37%
-14 154,43% 195,44%
-15 157,32% 200,51%
-16 160,21% 205,58%
-17 163,10% 210,65%
-18 165,99% 215,72%
-19 168,88% 220,79%
-20 171,77% 225,86%
-21 174,66% 230,93%
-22 177,55% 236,00%
-23 180,44% 241,07%
-24 183,33% 246,14%
-25 186,22% 251,21%
-26 189,11% 256,28%
-27 192,00% 261,35%
-28 194,89% 266,42%
-29 197,78% 271,49%
-30 200,67% 276,56%
-31 203,56% 281,63%
-32 206,45% 286,70%
-33 209,34% 291,77%
-34 212,23% 296,84%
-35 215,12% 301,91%
-36 218,01% 306,98%
-37 220,90% 312,05%
-38 223,79% 317,12%
-39 226,68% 322,19%
-40 229,57% 327,26%
-41 232,46% 332,33%
-42 235,35% 337,40%
-43 238,24% 342,47%
-44 241,13% 347,54%
-45 244,02% 352,61%
-46 246,91% 357,68%
-47 249,80% 362,75%
-48 252,69% 367,82%
-49 255,58% 372,89%
-50 258,47% 377,96%
-51 261,36% 383,03%
-52 264,25% 388,10%
-53 267,14% 393,17%
-54 270,03% 398,24%
-55 272,92% 403,31%
-56 275,81% 408,38%
-57 278,70% 413,45%
-58 281,59% 418,52%
-59 284,48% 423,59%
-60 287,37% 428,66%
-61 290,26% 433,73%
-62 293,15% 438,80%
-63 296,04% 443,87%
-64 298,93% 448,94%
-65 301,82% 454,01%
-66 304,71% 459,08%
-67 307,60% 464,15%
-68 310,49% 469,22%
-69 313,38% 474,29%
-70 316,27% 479,36%
-71 319,16% 484,43%
-72 322,05% 489,50%
-73 324,94% 494,57%
-74 327,83% 499,64%
-75 330,72% 504,71%
-76 333,61% 509,78%
-77 336,50% 514,85%
-78 339,39% 519,92%
-79 342,28% 524,99%
-80 345,17% 530,06%
-81 348,06% 535,13%
-82 350,95% 540,20%
-83 353,84% 545,27%
-84 356,73% 550,34%
-85 359,62% 555,41%
-86 362,51% 560,48%
-87 365,40% 565,55%
-88 368,29% 570,62%
-89 371,18% 575,69%
-90 374,07% 580,76%
-91 376,96% 585,83%
-92 379,85% 590,90%
-93 382,74% 595,97%
-94 385,63% 601,04%
-95 388,52% 606,11%
-96 391,41% 611,18%
-97 394,30% 616,25%
-98 397,19% 621,32%
-99 400,08% 626,39%
-100 402,97% 631,46%
-101 405,86% 636,53%
-102 408,75% 641,60%
-103 411,64% 646,67%
-104 414,53% 651,74%
-105 417,42% 656,81%
-106 420,31% 661,88%
-107 423,20% 666,95%
-108 426,09% 672,02%
-109 428,98% 677,09%
-110 431,87% 682,16%
-111 434,76% 687,23%
-112 437,65% 692,30%
-113 440,54% 697,37%
-114 443,43% 702,44%
-115 446,32% 707,51%
-116 449,21% 712,58%
-117 452,10% 717,65%
-118 454,99% 722,72%
-119 457,88% 727,79%
Thus after patch 1.1.0b a solo deathblow done by (R/RR)
... 40/1 killing a 31/1 is rewarded 206 renown (as in patch notes)
... 40/1 killing a 18/1 is rewarded 70 renown (as in patch notes)

On to the dodgy ones (even though they are to high)
... 40/1 killing a 40/40 is rewarded 1328 renown (-39)
... 40/1 killing a 40/20 is rewarded 742 renown (-19)

... 1/0 killing a 40/80 is rewarded 4022 renown (-119, clap clap good for him)

MORE ON RENOWN

Players
• Every player has a base renown value (anyone has the real formula?)
• If the deceased player has been killed recently, they will be worth less renown than normal
• Directly after death a player is worth 0 renown
• Every player has a heal renown pool that builds up as you kill enemies

Objectives such as keeps, forts and battle objectives
• Has a capture reward. The amount of Renown granted increases in each tier (i.e. Tier 3 objectives are worth more than Tier 2 objectives)
• Has a renown pool that is dependent on the number of players killed in the area and is distributed evenly when objective is taken or successfully defended
• When you have control of a Battlefield Objective you will gain a 5% increase to renown. The effect of Battlefield Objectives stack, there for if you are holding two, you will get a 10% increase
• BOs T1=200 renown, T2=300, T3=400, T4=500 Rewarded at cap and after 3min defend (so 400 MAX in T1 for one BO)

Guild standards
• Has a capture reward (360-600 renown)

Zone capture
• (Taking over an enemy zone will give you a chunk of Renown worth roughly 5 times your base if you're actively fighting in RvR at the time of capture. Let's say your base Renown worth is 100 points, you'll be given roughly 500 points when a zone is captured)
• Bonus for battlefield objectives you’ve participated in
• Bonus for keep takes you’ve participated in
• Bonus for previous zone

Scenarios
• Yields normal renown for kills and heals
• Has a renown bonus at the end of a scenario equal to your teams score (0-500). Losing side receives half their score
• Winning by 500 yields an additional 100 renown bonus to the winning side

Renown from killing players
• Each player has a flat amount of Renown they are worth depending on their current rank (level) and renown rank
• The amount of damage done will determine your share of the killed players renown
• The acctual deathblow yields no extra reward it just triggers renown to be rewarded
• When one player is killed by another player, the deceased's player rank and renown rank are measured against those of the killer and the awarded renown is adjusted upward or downward based on the parity of the two players

Renown from healing players
• Healing players will grant renown only if the healed player has earned renown from killing other players recently
• Provided the targets (players) heal renown pool isn’t depleted you receive healed amount divided by 100 rounded down
• Requires both the healer and target to be RvR flagged
• Healer and healed not in same group

Renown from party
• Renown from kills is divided evenly among members in the group
• The party’s share is determined by the groups combined damage when divided with other out of party players or groups
• Group members must be active in RvR, and within a certain range of the nearly deceased individual to receive renown. "Active in RvR" means that you must have performed an action against another player or benefited an ally who is also active

EDIT:
One other area we are focused on for 1.3.0b is to better incentivizing open-field RvR. We want players to hunt each other, and that’s what RvR is all about -- crushing and out-thinking your enemies. With that in mind, we are literally multiplying your XP and RP gain when fighting enemy players around Keeps and Battlefield Objectives. The Field of Glory buff currently grants a 100% experience bonus in RvR Lakes when killing players. Players will now receive an additional 50% bonus to experience and a 150% bonus to renown when killing players near Battlefield Objectives or Keeps.
Last edited by Bozzax on Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:54 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Melee Combat Mechanics

Post#9 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:49 am

Luth wrote:Maybe this is some usefull information on combat mechanics (don't know if the information is up-to-date):
Bruglirs findings are much more accurate

EDIT: Salvaged and reposted by altgrimreaper » Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:55 am
Last edited by Bozzax on Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Melee Combat Mechanics

Post#10 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:51 am

I couldn't find them, i thought it was all lost with the wipe of many old forums. Thanks a lot :D

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