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Patch Notes 27/11/2020

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Zorinxus
Posts: 13

Re: Patch Notes 27/11/2020

Post#341 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:04 am

Detangler wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:16 am
Anyone that tries to apply "logic" to a game with fireballs, demon pets, and giant teeth-filled testicle monsters already lost the argument.

Its a game. Don't use "logic" to justify a sudden change in game mechanics. You just sound stupid. Same goes to those that argue against it with more "logic."

Can't wait to read whatever the balance dartboard brings us this week!
that .....that was beautiful <3

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anarchypark
Posts: 1849

Re: Patch Notes 27/11/2020

Post#342 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:22 am

it's basic physics like gravity.
you stand between archer and target.
facing direction of shooter.

how do you fend off arrows or yell 'watch out!' when showing your back to shooter ?
even magics follow some rules.

It's so silly at the siege that tanks reveal butts to enemy archers on the wall and suddenly butt faced allies fend off enemy attacks.
wtf was that, butt magic?
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Jabba
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Posts: 343

Re: Patch Notes 27/11/2020

Post#343 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:44 am

anarchypark wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:22 am
it's basic physics like gravity.
you stand between archer and target.
facing direction of shooter.

how do you fend off arrows or yell 'watch out!' when showing your back to shooter ?
even magics follow some rules.

It's so silly at the siege that tanks reveal butts to enemy archers on the wall and suddenly butt faced allies fend off enemy attacks.
wtf was that, butt magic?
Doesn't seem all that farfetched in a setting where an entire race are just walking, talking, angry mushrooms.

Logic based on reality has no place in video game balance, especially when that game's setting is as wildly fantastical as Warhammer.


Maybe greenskins believe that hold the line increases dodge/disrupt for those behind them regardless of what direction they're facing, I play my greenskin chars primarily and I've decided that this is case for me, therefore this change is unloreful.
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retekelek
Posts: 100

Re: Patch Notes 27/11/2020

Post#344 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:46 am

Spoiler:
Fenris78 wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:39 am
After few days testing without SoR numbers :

- We spend more time doing nothing but trying to figure how much allies/opponents are in each zone.

- There is actually LESS informations and useful intel in /1 and /t4 chats, since nobody want to spend so much time constantly telling whats is going on and what's they doing.

- AAO is by no means a relevant indicator since its the same ratio 1/4 and 100/400. Without a vague population indicator it's not possible to figure how much ppl are in zones.

- Spending all the time flying around zones, playing hide and seek, asling questions in chat for no answers, using our tp and long-cd teleportation options for mostly wasted effort is not fun either.

- Small group play is widely penalized : you cannot take actions without knowing what's going on, and you don't have always a scout (ie. WH/WE) to send and try to pick info for others. All is left to do is either wandering around with fog of war and blindsides on, or logging off of boredom.


To sum it all, since you dont even have info about allies presense (or not) in zone, you cant coordinate anything, you cannot plan strategies, and your reaction time is about zero in case of mass inc, for siege, etc. especially with the new respawn mechanic (wich was fine with numbers info).

Seeing numbers was fun and game was flowing in a smooth way ; is was still unpredictable because you couldnt always tell is opponent were about to siege with even numbers, you were fearing about a siege at any time with uneven numbers.
You could see unexpected turns of tide too, like winning a defense being widely outnumbered, etc. Numbers were barely an indicator of enemy activity, but more of a thermometer of things and what to expect (but not always).
Small groups could actually act by fighting in non-overpopulated zones and contribute with their actions (wich are limited indeed, but nonetheless essential), and they also could join the zerg when it was needed.

So yes it had drawbacks, like being able to see for instance small group of opponent sieging in other zone, where you knew you could easily scatter them with one warband, but it also allowed tactical moves for allied realm like reinforce the siege by sending more support. It was always a double-edged sword, and I loved it (and I think I'm not alone).


Anyway, there is clearly a balance to find if you dont want to see exact numbers in real-time, probably a population indicator like "small/medium/big/massive" for each side and zone, to help figure out where the action is, without becoming too granular and overinformative (thus last months were actually the most fun I had in the game since a long time).
100% aggre, its a much more better crafted and explained post, than i did as a reply for this change, and its summarize my problems, as a smallscale player. Also like the midroad idea at the end of the post.

anarchypark
Posts: 1849

Re: Patch Notes 27/11/2020

Post#345 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:50 am

Jabba wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:44 am
anarchypark wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:22 am
it's basic physics like gravity.
you stand between archer and target.
facing direction of shooter.

how do you fend off arrows or yell 'watch out!' when showing your back to shooter ?
even magics follow some rules.

It's so silly at the siege that tanks reveal butts to enemy archers on the wall and suddenly butt faced allies fend off enemy attacks.
wtf was that, butt magic?
Doesn't seem all that farfetched in a setting where an entire race are just walking, talking, angry mushrooms.

Logic based on reality has no place in video game balance, especially when that game's setting is as wildly fantastical as Warhammer.


Maybe greenskins believe that hold the line increases dodge/disrupt for those behind them regardless of what direction they're facing, I play my greenskin chars primarily and I've decided that this is case for me, therefore this change is unloreful.

every fantasy games follow gravity rule.
It's minimum physics in fantasy.
you need it to crush skulls with hammer.
so does projectile direction.
greenskin butt magic was ridiculous even in warhammer game.
but who are we trying to convince. believe what u want.
maybe gork says no mork says yes and gork won.
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Nekkma
Posts: 645

Re: Patch Notes 27/11/2020

Post#346 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:48 am

Fenris78 wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:39 am

- Spending all the time flying around zones, playing hide and seek, asling questions in chat for no answers, using our tp and long-cd teleportation options for mostly wasted effort is not fun either.
While I do not agree with this posters general conclusions, the from live increased cd on guild scrolls is very annoying when zone hopping. The cd of 5 min on live was just fine and should preferably be restored. The present, absolutely absurd, cd of 2h make the guild scroll close to worthless.
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User avatar
Jabba
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Posts: 343

Re: Patch Notes 27/11/2020

Post#347 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:02 pm

anarchypark wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:50 am
so does projectile direction.
And yet bullets and arrows lock on to targets that are moving like heat seeking missiles, changing course to ensure they hit .

There are so many examples where physics are thrown out the window for the sake of gameplay. How about how wh/we's can yeet themselves backwards and perform a static jump backwards 30ft and 20ft in the air, off the side of a bridge and fall hundreds of feet and run off without a scratch as an example. Yay for physics!
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nat3s
Posts: 346

Re: Patch Notes 27/11/2020

Post#348 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:51 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:11 pm
I love when you try to give a reason that has anything to do with logic and the retorts are so ridiculously bad it kind of makes you wonder what you could get away with if you just put up a middle finger and called it magic instead. Would that be easier to accept? What a curious argument to make. :)

Hah was thinking the same re logical arguments on here. MMOs are fantasy worlds!

You know it's a decent private server when the devs are happy to chip in mocking people.
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TreefAM
Posts: 600

Re: Patch Notes 27/11/2020

Post#349 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:23 pm

The new HTL change makes a few things impossible to do.
I imagine it was made because of funnel fights and people dying to aoe pressure.
But this only matters while standing on the doors, the moment you start pushing it becomes a useless ability since you won't be working because you will be surrounded by the enemy blob, so the dmg reduction buff given to HTL matters for nothing.
Other situations include
Kiting larger forces, before while the healers and dps move further back, your tanks would be left slightly behind and use htl on themselves to kite the enemy blob, now you have to resort to clunky strafing which is impractical and still leads to your tanks beind surrounded and overwealmed.
Fighting bomb warbands, like multiple sorcs or bws. Before when engaging said warband you'd have tanks do HTL their other abilities to mitigate some of the deathball dmg.
Now that both warbands are on eachother there's no way a tank can position himself in a way to make the dmg reduction and mitigation apply to his warband.

anarchypark
Posts: 1849

Re: Patch Notes 27/11/2020

Post#350 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:06 am

TreefAM wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:23 pm
The new HTL change makes a few things impossible to do.
I imagine it was made because of funnel fights and people dying to aoe pressure.
But this only matters while standing on the doors, the moment you start pushing it becomes a useless ability since you won't be working because you will be surrounded by the enemy blob, so the dmg reduction buff given to HTL matters for nothing.
Other situations include
Kiting larger forces, before while the healers and dps move further back, your tanks would be left slightly behind and use htl on themselves to kite the enemy blob, now you have to resort to clunky strafing which is impractical and still leads to your tanks beind surrounded and overwealmed.
Fighting bomb warbands, like multiple sorcs or bws. Before when engaging said warband you'd have tanks do HTL their other abilities to mitigate some of the deathball dmg.
Now that both warbands are on eachother there's no way a tank can position himself in a way to make the dmg reduction and mitigation apply to his warband.

I call it formation.
front - mid - back line basic.
Triangle, circle, rear guard, vanguard etc.
SM8, SW8, AM8, WL7, KoBS5, BW5, WP8, WH7, IB6, EG5, RP5, SL6
BG7, Sorc6, DoK7, WE7, Cs7, Mg7, Ze6, Mara6, BO4, SH7, Shm5, Chop4
SC summary - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20415
( last update : 2020.06.09)

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