[SUGGESTION] Magus/Engi Changes for the interim...

[Renork]

Reducing the CD on withered soul would be fantastic, yes.


edit: Although we won't see the benefit until t4, so we may have to wait until we get there.

[Bozzax]

Long duration DoTs (9-20s) with long CDs (10+) in a group cleansing environment (1-2 grp cleanse every 5 seconds) are seriously lacking oomph. This IMO is the real problem with Magus/Engi (in a 6v6 env).

This is what I'd try first wo touching the damage/migration.

1. Remove/lower CDs for DoTs
2. Lower DoT durations

Test it and If it proves to be OP/bad revert back to original values or adjust damages a tad

Something like this ...

Engineer

Spoiler:

Ability, CD, Duration
Acid Bomb 0 21
Fragmentation Grenade 0 9
Friction Burn 0 5
Incendiary Rounds 0 9
Phosphorous Shells 0 9
Signal Flare 5 9
Sticky Bomb 0 9

Magus

Spoiler:

Ability, CD, Duration
Baleful Transmogrification 0 9
Glean Magic 0 20
Infernal Blast 0 5
Mutating Blue Fire 0 5
Pandemonium 0 9
Seed of Chaos 0 9
Withered Soul 5 9

I'd much rather see this Instead of making them carbon copies of BW/Sorc in order to keep the uniqueness of the classes.

[peterthepan3]

1) WF/LOTD stuff will not be in this game
2) We KNOW that the Magus/engi need a COMPLETE overhaul. However, as per Aza's suggestions, I have made this thread dealing with only a few abilities at a time. Suggesting 30000 different fixes will not get anywhere, so little steps like buffing the stagger and making BOC/Snipe have a shorter CD are something to help
3) BOC/Snipe have high base damage, but are on incredibly long CDs and don't have anything that really complements their damage, e.g. Dhar Magic of Sorc, VoN from SW, Snipe being physical, e tc. Given their cost, and cast time, they should have a shorter CD. If you're really opposing that then meh, I dunno.
4) Promoting a full DOT and then burst routine would be ideal, but necessitates more fixes in regards to the dots themselves: shorter durations, stronger ticks, anti-cleanse etc I dunno. Hence why I only posted 2 changes in this thread.
5) No, if you're focused on ST then you're focusing on ST - same applies to AOE. You don't see ST Sorcerers shifting between AOE and ST on key targets, so why should Magi/Engis. We have 2 trees dedicated to AOE, so there should be one that is 99% ST. Having said that, I don't mind Firestorm so much: it looks cool, deals decent damage if you have a chosen/20% dmg buff. So I don't mind keeping it.
6) Snipe and BOC should not be reliant on a DOT rotation. If you go havoc/change, you only actively use 2 DoTs when focusing targets - Withered and Baleful (occasionally MBF). You use the 2 dots, get your pet up, use BOC and a SVF as soon as BOC hits. That takes about 6/7 seconds to set-up - similar to a Sorc's rotation, not to mention you need to get debuffs resisted and ensure your pet is up - and so it should do good damage.

tldr - a 5 sec BoC/Snipe CD and 5 sec stagger is not going to harm anyone, and would make most engi/magi happy.

1) My point still remains. It was an example to give some numbers for those of you who rely on that sort of thing as being the most important
2) Fair enough that this thread is "just for now stuff". But the point with my post (which I wrote before the patch) was that the steps you originally suggested (before and after edit) would push the class in the entirely wrong direction. And they show a deep fundamental lack of understanding of both the class and how to use it.
3) I'm fine with 5 sec CD buff, and very happy with the stagger buff - it was one of the things we asked for the most on Live after the stagger nerf. But at the same time, thinking that the 5 sec buff, along with everything else you want, as being necessary to fix Magus/Engi, just goes to show why so many people fail at them with Single Target. Lack of rotation and expecting BoC to be a 1 button end all be all NUKE of Magus (or even close to it) is a player issue, not a class issue. And even further from it's actual core issues (which aren't even bad at all, mind you).
4) Promoting a full DoT+DD rotation is indeed ideal, and can also be done now. DoTs could still use the proper buffing/tweaking though, we can agree on that.
5) I'm sorry but absolutely every single one these statements are 100% incorrect and cringe worthy logic... And without trying to sound like a d**k, show that you shouldn't really be dictating what a Magus/Engi needs...
6) Wrong. It actually saddens me to see a rotation and player mechanics like this =/ and proves further the above statements that I've made... This is simply the incorrect way to play. Perhaps that's why you originally asked for the changes that you did...

TLDR; Dot damage, pet scaling in T4, and possibly how cleansable certain Dots are, are the core issues, and the only ones we should really even be concerned with. And those issues are relatively minor.

My concern is only that anything else in the meantime might get in way of properly fixing my favorite two classes. But the changes made so far are fine, particularly the stagger buff.

As a matter of fact, I'm extremely happy balance changes are even being made at all.

1) your point is rendered null as this server, I reiterate, will not have WF.
2) giving the class more single-target damage, CC options and more of a defined role in a competitive environment is pushing the class in the wrong environment? Ok
3) the stagger has nothing to do with the class' single-target capabilities/concerns....wtf?
4) Agreed. shorter cd/duration or some anti-cleanse abilities
5) Oh okay then, if you spec into single-target you SHOULD be using aoe skills as well. that's why you see agony/calamity sorcerers always using pit of shades, white lions using their AOE spammable, single target marauders spamming demolition....oh wait. If you're going to have personal digs at me, at least log your Magus and lets see who plays the class better with a more thorough understanding. I won't reply in kind to someone that seems determined to keep the class as it is, using petty digs.
6) Then what IS the correct way to play a single-target tree revolving around a huge nuke?! Jesus christ, have you played the class, rift aside?

[Karast]

I would suggest simply a raw stat buff to turrets / daemons tied to the mastery trees. For each point in the tree +x stats for that trees turret / daemon.

The current stat sharing is just not enough, and with each added tier the ration between pet / toon just gets worse.

If you compared each 10 levels it looks something like this.

Level 10 turret hits for around 75% of player damage.
Level 20 turret is hitting close to 50%.
Level 30 turret is hitting about 25%.

The ability tool tip damage is the roughly the same, but pet stats don't increase enough with leveling, they do not get 100% contribution, they don't get buffs / potions, weapon damage, crit, so they lag behind.

In T1 and even T2 ignoring a well placed turret / daemon can kill, even in a premade setting, since it adds good dps on a healer, but in T3 it's a non issue, and in T4 it is more of a joke.

But buffing turrets / daemons is noting going to be popular. It makes engi / magus stronger in solo / roaming, and it will be a head when squigs and WL's coming asking for similar buffs as well. How do you balance immobile pets, with mobile ones that run and shoot through walls?

[SilverWF]

The ONLY change that must be done for years with Magus and Engi is: increase base range 2nd tree (Path of Changing / Path of The Grenadier) abilities from 65 to 80ft or even 100ft!

[Coryphaus]

What will that do?

Encourage people to spec into grenadier and havoc? Like they already did in endgame if they wanted to be relevent back on live?

Range on those abilites isn't the solution



What if we could increase the range of the pet dmg boost aura so that engie/mag are more mobile?

[Tesq]

For me the only general issue with magus/engi both aoe and st is the small range of the pet, which should be higer.
Magus is full of damage increase stuff, all his changing skills also can benefith from a 15% crit chance more which make his ST rotation or an aoe with dissolving mist deadly.

AOE dot that dont benefith from 15% crit tactc
infernal blast (not cleanseable)

AOE dot that benefith from 15% crit chance tactic

dissolving mist
pandemonium
glean magic

they can either be used as ST with

seed of chaos
rend wind

all these skills have a 15% crit chance more which is insane as it allow you spec to even more crit chcance or more def to be able to front line better.
Not only that the magus debuff his AOE damage type so this further increase it's aoe damages which is not the case od the engi.

the only problem with your dots is the enemy cleanse, which mean as counter you need to have lots of ap and low CD
-which make the seed of chaos 10 sec CD a little too higer (5 sec would be better)
-which requrire magus engi to spec mandatory an ap tactic.

About the cc part of magus/engy, they alredy recived a boost with stag buff but:
-as def tool the rkb with a 1 sec cast is unreliable due the front line nature of magus/engi.(which would be better with a 0.5 cast time/ or istant instead. (or eithe r make it medium punt)

Engi/magus built around mid/last path allow you also to ista swap between a ST rotation and a aoe rotation which sometimes should results in put lot pressure to enemys healers.

as side note indigo fire of change is perfect as 9 pt skill, the only way to improve it it's let it tick every 1/0.5 sec instead every 2 which results in more crits and would have more synergy with crit tactic.

[Renork]

Do not do anything else to the class until cap is raised to 40. If playing correctly, 5s stagger is an excellent tool as of right now.

[SilverWF]

You all are asking for too much changes and I really doubt our admins will be able to do that in the reasonable time

I suggest of increasing range of some skills from 65 to 80 feets and this will be easy to do and this will be really good changes.
And also it will add more mobility.

Anything else, I'm afraid, will make too much IMBA from them.

Do not forget also, that Engi has really not bad 3rd tree with aoe healing keg and he also has M2.

Do not do anything else to the class until cap is raised to 40. If playing correctly, 5s stagger is an excellent tool as of right now.

Hope, you meant root, because stagger (demon / mine) has 3 sec time

[Renork]

You all are asking for too much changes and I really doubt our admins will be able to do that in the reasonable time

I suggest of increasing range of some skills from 65 to 80 feets and this will be easy to do and this will be really good changes.
And also it will add more mobility.

Anything else, I'm afraid, will make too much IMBA from them.

Do not forget also, that Engi has really not bad 3rd tree with aoe healing keg and he also has M2.

Do not do anything else to the class until cap is raised to 40. If playing correctly, 5s stagger is an excellent tool as of right now.

Hope, you meant root, because stagger (demon / mine) has 3 sec time

Do you realize that in majority of your posts/threads you attempt to correct others, when in fact, YOU are usually wrong? How do you even survive in the real world? Let me help you,

- The duration of Daemonic Infestation's stagger has been increased from 3 seconds to 5 seconds.

Your tooltip says 3 seconds, but if you r-e-a-d the notes, then you would know it's 5 seconds.

And I do not agree with increasing the range. If you want to play a long range caster, then play a sorcerer or slot daemonic reach. Most TRUE magi players will know that the flaw with the class isn't the range. The "lol look at me I play a magus on ROR and hit the 32rr40 cap" players have no idea how the class functions once you hit 40.


if you stand on a purple mist, you deserve to die.