[SUGGESTION] Magus/Engi Changes for the interim...

[Epo]

I think I saw you in a scenario a few days ago, and if that was indeed you then perhaps you should not be so vocal here.

I dont wanna get into a pissing content but from some peoples point of view you should take your own advice here. But you do it all time in whispers and advice so w/e. Please can we stop taking pot shots and petty digs now?

Anyway back to something actually relevant: I play magus from time to time, don't claim to be a pro at the class or anything like that but I agree with Warpes and Korhill to be honest. You can argue the class is weak until you're blue in the face but you have to be careful when balancing anything before t4. If you're a player who plays 6v6 all the time then of course Magus won't be super "optimal" for that, but neither are some other classes because that's just the nature of it. It fills a role in a warband orvr situation and can do well in 1v1 situations etc. I see a lot of people wanting to be somewhat like a sorc, in which case I think you just should roll a sorc because you're probably playing this class for the wrong reasons. As for the rift being the niche and class defining skill, that's kind of the point. A lot of people probably enjoy this spec, and don't want anything changed, but i suppose the great forum warriors would calls these people casual and bad players for having a different opinion to them.

Bottom line, I think Korhill is right in being careful before t4.

Happy holidays <3

[Renork]

I think I saw you in a scenario a few days ago, and if that was indeed you then perhaps you should not be so vocal here.

I dont wanna get into a pissing content but from some peoples point of view you should take your own advice here. But you do it all time in whispers and advice so w/e. Please can we stop taking pot shots and petty digs now?

Anyway back to something actually relevant: I play magus from time to time, don't claim to be a pro at the class or anything like that but I agree with Warpes and Korhill to be honest. You can argue the class is weak until you're blue in the face but you have to be careful when balancing anything before t4. If you're a player who plays 6v6 all the time then of course Magus won't be super "optimal" for that, but neither are some other classes because that's just the nature of it. It fills a role in a warband orvr situation and can do well in 1v1 situations etc. I see a lot of people wanting to be somewhat like a sorc, in which case I think you just should roll a sorc because you're probably playing this class for the wrong reasons. As for the rift being the niche and class defining skill, that's kind of the point. A lot of people probably enjoy this spec, and don't want anything changed, but i suppose the great forum warriors would calls these people casual and bad players for having a different opinion to them.

Bottom line, I think Korhill is right in being careful before t4.

Happy holidays <3

Funny..actually no...hilarious coming from you, pot meet kettle much? Anyways, you're also not adding anything substantial to this thread so why are you posting?

[Epo]

Funny..actually no...hilarious coming from you, pot meet kettle much? Anyways, you're also not adding anything substantial to this thread so why are you posting?

Can go back and forth with pot kettle all day to be honest, but like I said, not going to get into a pissing content. I added my opinion, like a lot of people have, such as yourself and that's all there is to it , that was the "point of my posting". If you have anything further to say to me just PM it so it doesn't de-rail the thread. Same to your guildie, I had to ignore him after he called us "Russian Communists" when we killed him :/.

I've given my opinion to the discussion and won't post again,

Happy holidays to everyone <3.

[Renork]

Funny..actually no...hilarious coming from you, pot meet kettle much? Anyways, you're also not adding anything substantial to this thread so why are you posting?

Can go back and forth with pot kettle all day to be honest, but like I said, not going to get into a pissing content. I added my opinion, like a lot of people have, such as yourself and that's all there is to it , that was the "point of my posting". If you have anything further to say to me just PM it so it doesn't de-rail the thread. Same to your guildie, I had to ignore him after he called us "Russian Communists" when we killed him :/.

I've given my opinion to the discussion and won't post again,

Happy holidays to everyone <3.

Once again, you're not adding anything substantial to this thread. All you're doing is instigating more fights, this isn't the thread for that and besides that, you already do a good job at it in /advice and during scenarios with your failed attempts to cyber bully people. So once again, stop posting here if you're not going to add suggestions or ways to better the class.

[Ade]

Once again, you're not adding anything substantial to this thread. All you're doing is instigating more fights, this isn't the thread for that and besides that, you already do a good job at it in /advice and during scenarios with your failed attempts to cyber bully people. So once again, stop posting here if you're not going to add suggestions or ways to better the class.

Seriously now, read posts before you reply

1) He gave his opinion - all are valid, this is a server, you are not a dev so don't tell people what they can and cannot post
2) He is not instigating anything here and asked you politely to pm him if you had any other issue
3) Just like my post you contribute nothing with posts like these so just stop them completely and let the thread move on with it's proper intention.

[Warpes]

Oh boy...
first and foremost - when/where did I take credit for it? at the very least I would say that due to the ideas renork, myself, and other people put forward, these changes were -partially- conceived. all credit, of course, goes to the devs - but I didn't see you offering many suggestions.

1) Magus with WF could do respectable damage, and with LOTD stuff. Given that: a) WF won't be in the game; b) LOTD will not be/some gear won't be available, I don't understand why you'd mention them?
2) Before we proceed, I must inquire as to what the 'right' direction is for a class that: hasn't a definite role; gets outperformed by other classes in almost everything except rift. If boosting the single-target damage as a TEMPORARY BANDAID (as I have said various times) until a class overhaul can be discussed is a bad thing - then okay.
3) You mentioned you like the 5 second stagger, and then went on to say "But at the same time, thinking that the 5 sec buff, along with everything else you want, as being necessary to fix Magus/Engi, just goes to show why so many people fail at them with Single Target." There is not relevance between the two whatsoever, hence my inquiring.
5) I didn't say that they don't; more, if you are spec'd single-target then that is where your priority lies. Changing and Daemon are a lot more attuned to AOE than Havoc; Havoc IS the single-target tree. That doesn't say you can't use your aoe dots (you should when given opportune moments to do so); but your focus will be 1/2 dots and trying to burst people down. I don't understand why you can't grasp this.
6) As a Havoc Magus on live, I know how the burst rotation works - but thanks anyway. Bolt of Change takes 3 seconds to cast, you will cast a SOI and then follow up with a SVF at the exact time for maximum damage - all in all taking around 6 seconds (not including time for DOTs to be applied). If you're using FRF at R40 ST DPS spec then you are doing it wrong. Two words: Surging Power.

I petition for the class to have some changes, that is all. The Magus isn't TERRIBLE; but has no role, nor niche - outside of riftbot. You are just another silent ninja who will say nothing until the moment beneficial changes are implemented, and THEN shout down people for -actively- trying to buff a class that needs it.

I think I saw you in a scenario a few days ago, and if that was indeed you then perhaps you should not be so vocal here.

You keep using stagger as a means of correcting me, implying for some reason that I ever said I don't like the change (or wasn't one of the first people on Live to even ask for it) thus being why all my other statements must apparently be incorrect. It's another straw man argument, and it's bad.

1) This is just trolling now. You know it wasn't the focus of the point, it was in addition to the real point being that BoC was fine as is, and potentially even OP with all of it's advantages. WF just happened to make a hard hitting spell hit even harder. Haven't said anything about it since, but you keep bringing it up. Just stop.
2) I and others (for years now) have already stated what the right direction is: more effective dots, better pet scaling, possible buff to "pet buff", despite the troll here I'll repeat it one last time.
And thank you for again proving my point that you believe Magus to be "oh so underpowered", so let's buff what YOU think it needs, being someone who claims it's your main, and yet think it sucks so damn bad.
The temporary bandaid is fine, I never said it wasn't. Use a different argument besides putting words in my mouth for once please.
3) Exactly that, I was simply pointing out that I liked the buff to stagger, whereas you kept telling me I didn't somehow, stating all my "negativety, must means I'm against it!!!" Against your suggestions yes, but it's a good thing the Devs didn't go with those, now did they?
5) Priority yes, exactly my point. However what you said, word for word was "No, if you're focused on ST then you're focusing on ST - same applies to AOE." And have repeatedly beaten that horse to death, as wrong as it is. So tell me, why are you suddenly changing your tune? Now you're essentially agreeing with me, and asking me why I can't grasp my own logic?
Magus is one class that can and should use BOTH AoE and ST in almost every situation, and swap back and forth between the two, on the fly.
6) Oh so you do understand some basic rotations. Certainly sounds a lot better than your "2 dots, 2 dd, done" 6-7s rotation that you said was all you needed. And here I thought you only understood rifting, since "that's all Magus is useful for" mr havoc magus on live.
Yes, SOI is great to use as well as FRF not just at rr40 but at anything higher. Obviously you wouldn't be just spamming FRF, but you know better than to suggest that's what I'm implying, don't you.
As well, a lot of the time (but not always) a rotation would have SOI on cooldown by this point to interrupt healers before the final burst hits, or did you forget once again that numbers and raw damage aren't the only things that exist in this game? It can certainly be used how you said as well (for the interrupt OR dmg). But I'm glad we agree your original rotation was wrong.
Surging power is my favorite tactic too, next to close quarters, but thanks for the tip.

Oh you saw my undergeared fresh to T3 rr25 Magus pugging in an SC?

Actually I'm quite certain I haven't played him in over 3 weeks to level my usual alts, and have done exceedingly well in the ones I did play, even despite pug/rank/gear. But nice try buddy. With you the term "forum warrior" comes to mind for some reason...

And if you'll notice, I haven't said anything negative to anyone else because the majority of their suggestions are pretty on point and seem to understand the class. I've made plenty of threads and replies for suggestions to both magus and engi in the past, and even stated that I was about to do the same on here before YOU pointed out that we should "all refrain from doing so until we're ready to fully discuss balance in T4". Which is a good idea.

Nice job countering your own logic though, again. But hey, let's keep arguing because egos are more far important than balance, right?

[Renork]

Once again, you're not adding anything substantial to this thread. All you're doing is instigating more fights, this isn't the thread for that and besides that, you already do a good job at it in /advice and during scenarios with your failed attempts to cyber bully people. So once again, stop posting here if you're not going to add suggestions or ways to better the class.

Seriously now, read posts before you reply

1) He gave his opinion - all are valid, this is a server, you are not a dev so don't tell people what they can and cannot post
2) He is not instigating anything here and asked you politely to pm him if you had any other issue
3) Just like my post you contribute nothing with posts like these so just stop them completely and let the thread move on with it's proper intention.

That is subjective, and are YOU adding anything substantial to this thread regarding both classes or did you just happen to come here to defend the undefendable?? maybe you should familiarize yourself with the forums rules, http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... =52&t=1009. Try that for starters ok?

Second, go look up the word "instigate" and re-read his previous posts. I'm going to assume you can at least do that right?

Third, you are as important as I'm and thus I reserve the right to tell you to stop posting on a thread that was created with the intent to better these two classes. No one cares about your fragile ego or your lack of self-esteem here. If you both have problems with DeViate then you can PM them or get over it.


Edit: Back to the original purpose of this thread. Adjusting dot damage, scaling, and duration is probably very difficult because they need to remain effective, yet not cross the op line.

[Ade]

Spoiler:

Once again, you're not adding anything substantial to this thread. All you're doing is instigating more fights, this isn't the thread for that and besides that, you already do a good job at it in /advice and during scenarios with your failed attempts to cyber bully people. So once again, stop posting here if you're not going to add suggestions or ways to better the class.

Seriously now, read posts before you reply

1) He gave his opinion - all are valid, this is a server, you are not a dev so don't tell people what they can and cannot post
2) He is not instigating anything here and asked you politely to pm him if you had any other issue
3) Just like my post you contribute nothing with posts like these so just stop them completely and let the thread move on with it's proper intention.

That is subjective, and are YOU adding anything substantial to this thread regarding both classes or did you just happen to come here to defend the undefendable?? maybe you should familiarize yourself with the forums rules, http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... =52&t=1009. Try that for starters ok?

Second, go look up the word "instigate" and re-read his previous posts. I'm going to assume you can at least do that right?

Third, you are as important as I'm and thus I reserve the right to tell you to stop posting on a thread that was created with the intent to better these two classes. No one cares about your fragile ego or your lack of self-esteem here. If you both have problems with DeViate then you can PM them or get over it.

Once again I ask you to read, I said my post contributed nothing but to just state somebody gave their opinion on the current situation of the class ( like I also did a while ago ) yet you told them to stop posting.

Also you are the one attacking me here, surely this is also 'cyber-bullying'? Not quite sure what my ego or self esteem has to do with this, I live a happy life with a nice job and family/friends... Im not quite sure I know you in real life that you can make such a statement.

Perhaps if you spent more time reading and less time using fancy words and trying to make it personal then you might understand the point I was trying to convey.

[Renork]

When people find the need to instigate fights in-game for no apparent reason other than "just because" it proves they have a major lack of self-esteem and fragile ego. I had your *friends/guild members* attack me during a scenario the other day, simply because I mentioned my magus does not have the role of a sorcerer, and that I don't have the power to push back 12 people while simultanously focusing healers down. I'm going to leave it there because then I'm going to sound just like Epo and that's not the purpose of this thread..right?

My posts have contributed plenty to this thread, and mostly because the point of it is to discuss magus/eng changes. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but you forget that Epo came here to gives his opinion while simultanously telling PeterPan to *take his own advice*. Was that necessary? In his second post he tries to instigate a fight by stating something PeterPan may or may have not said, once again...why would anyone care about that? He posted that to instigate a fight, as usual.

Once again, why waste your time posting here when you're not contributing anything and derailing the thread?

[peterthepan3]

Oh boy...
first and foremost - when/where did I take credit for it? at the very least I would say that due to the ideas renork, myself, and other people put forward, these changes were -partially- conceived. all credit, of course, goes to the devs - but I didn't see you offering many suggestions.

1) Magus with WF could do respectable damage, and with LOTD stuff. Given that: a) WF won't be in the game; b) LOTD will not be/some gear won't be available, I don't understand why you'd mention them?
2) Before we proceed, I must inquire as to what the 'right' direction is for a class that: hasn't a definite role; gets outperformed by other classes in almost everything except rift. If boosting the single-target damage as a TEMPORARY BANDAID (as I have said various times) until a class overhaul can be discussed is a bad thing - then okay.
3) You mentioned you like the 5 second stagger, and then went on to say "But at the same time, thinking that the 5 sec buff, along with everything else you want, as being necessary to fix Magus/Engi, just goes to show why so many people fail at them with Single Target." There is not relevance between the two whatsoever, hence my inquiring.
5) I didn't say that they don't; more, if you are spec'd single-target then that is where your priority lies. Changing and Daemon are a lot more attuned to AOE than Havoc; Havoc IS the single-target tree. That doesn't say you can't use your aoe dots (you should when given opportune moments to do so); but your focus will be 1/2 dots and trying to burst people down. I don't understand why you can't grasp this.
6) As a Havoc Magus on live, I know how the burst rotation works - but thanks anyway. Bolt of Change takes 3 seconds to cast, you will cast a SOI and then follow up with a SVF at the exact time for maximum damage - all in all taking around 6 seconds (not including time for DOTs to be applied). If you're using FRF at R40 ST DPS spec then you are doing it wrong. Two words: Surging Power.

I petition for the class to have some changes, that is all. The Magus isn't TERRIBLE; but has no role, nor niche - outside of riftbot. You are just another silent ninja who will say nothing until the moment beneficial changes are implemented, and THEN shout down people for -actively- trying to buff a class that needs it.

I think I saw you in a scenario a few days ago, and if that was indeed you then perhaps you should not be so vocal here.

You keep using stagger as a means of correcting me, implying for some reason that I ever said I don't like the change (or wasn't one of the first people on Live to even ask for it) thus being why all my other statements must apparently be incorrect. It's another straw man argument, and it's bad.

1) This is just trolling now. You know it wasn't the focus of the point, it was in addition to the real point being that BoC was fine as is, and potentially even OP with all of it's advantages. WF just happened to make a hard hitting spell hit even harder. Haven't said anything about it since, but you keep bringing it up. Just stop.
2) I and others (for years now) have already stated what the right direction is: more effective dots, better pet scaling, possible buff to "pet buff", despite the troll here I'll repeat it one last time.
And thank you for again proving my point that you believe Magus to be "oh so underpowered", so let's buff what YOU think it needs, being someone who claims it's your main, and yet think it sucks so damn bad.
The temporary bandaid is fine, I never said it wasn't. Use a different argument besides putting words in my mouth for once please.
3) Exactly that, I was simply pointing out that I liked the buff to stagger, whereas you kept telling me I didn't somehow, stating all my "negativety, must means I'm against it!!!" Against your suggestions yes, but it's a good thing the Devs didn't go with those, now did they?
5) Priority yes, exactly my point. However what you said, word for word was "No, if you're focused on ST then you're focusing on ST - same applies to AOE." And have repeatedly beaten that horse to death, as wrong as it is. So tell me, why are you suddenly changing your tune? Now you're essentially agreeing with me, and asking me why I can't grasp my own logic?
Magus is one class that can and should use BOTH AoE and ST in almost every situation, and swap back and forth between the two, on the fly.
6) Oh so you do understand some basic rotations. Certainly sounds a lot better than your "2 dots, 2 dd, done" 6-7s rotation that you said was all you needed. And here I thought you only understood rifting, since "that's all Magus is useful for" mr havoc magus on live.
Yes, SOI is great to use as well as FRF not just at rr40 but at anything higher. Obviously you wouldn't be just spamming FRF, but you know better than to suggest that's what I'm implying, don't you.
As well, a lot of the time (but not always) a rotation would have SOI on cooldown by this point to interrupt healers before the final burst hits, or did you forget once again that numbers and raw damage aren't the only things that exist in this game? It can certainly be used how you said as well (for the interrupt OR dmg). But I'm glad we agree your original rotation was wrong.
Surging power is my favorite tactic too, next to close quarters, but thanks for the tip.

Oh you saw my undergeared fresh to T3 rr25 Magus pugging in an SC?

Actually I'm quite certain I haven't played him in over 3 weeks to level my usual alts, and have done exceedingly well in the ones I did play, even despite pug/rank/gear. But nice try buddy. With you the term "forum warrior" comes to mind for some reason...

And if you'll notice, I haven't said anything negative to anyone else because the majority of their suggestions are pretty on point and seem to understand the class. I've made plenty of threads and replies for suggestions to both magus and engi in the past, and even stated that I was about to do the same on here before YOU pointed out that we should "all refrain from doing so until we're ready to fully discuss balance in T4". Which is a good idea.

Nice job countering your own logic though, again. But hey, let's keep arguing because egos are more far important than balance, right?

i really don't get your hostility mate
i can't be bothered arguing.

TLDR: single-target specs prioritise ST; I agreed and have said before that dots need better scaling/lower durations.
not really in the mood to be shot down by some guy that never probably got past rr40, but cheers. we'll see when you get your magus to a good level how much of this is bark and not bite.

the fu man cho dudes don't even warrant a reply to be honest.
said my peace, at this rate you can do with the magus what you please. I shall shut up and insist the class is fine and needs no further tampering. happy holidays!