Does Death Carry Enough Weight?

[MyKingdomForAHorse]

Hmm interesting. This is nothing but food for thought of course, I was merely curious to hear what people thought about the matter. I have been playing Dark Souls recently so perhaps I have been influenced by my experience of that.

It was not my intention with my original post to suggest that we should bring back the mechanic where players pay one of the NPCs to be returned to full health. In truth, I had only a few ideas as to how extra penalties might work.

These included:

- Every death resulting in the loss of a small amount of gold, enough to hit one's wallet if you insist on doing it on a regular basis. Maybe 5 - 10 gold per death, which is distributed amongst the players of the enemy warband or party. Since the gold is still in circulation and doesn't simply vanish, it would be quite possible to earn it all back if you take care.

- The inability to earn gold, gear or any kind of points while dead. Perhaps combined with longer respawn and resurrection times so you miss more than a few seconds worth of rewards.

- More crippling, and longer-lasting debuffs on your return to the battlefield.



Just some thoughts, many game-breaking no doubt XD

[Kaori1]

The retail system only affected low level characters who were barely making money and most of which were still learning how to play their class...I dont think we should add the system back just to punnish these players.

You could look at it this way though: every time you die you are giving your enemies another chance of getting phat loots from your corpse. That and my pride are enough reasons to prevent me from taking my deaths lightly.

[Arbich]

These included:

- Every death resulting in the loss of a small amount of gold, enough to hit one's wallet if you insist on doing it on a regular basis. Maybe 5 - 10 gold per death, which is distributed amongst the players of the enemy warband or party. Since the gold is still in circulation and doesn't simply vanish, it would be quite possible to earn it all back if you take care.

But Gold should vanish. At the moment the total amount of gold on the server will rise and rise which means that the prices at auction house will rise, too. And that hurt new players. Or at some point gold don´t matter anything and so nobody would sell stuff at auction house amd so player who don´t invest time in crafting have problems to get potions, talismans etc.

Another point I don´t like about your suggestion is, that some players will lose more often than they win (basic principle in pvp-game ) and that will cost them a lot of gold with the prices you suggest.

They should make it like on live-servers with low cost for healing the death debuff. Maybe only for t3 and t4.

[Midwifery]

I actually like the idea of there being a penalty for death. Another idea that comes to mind is that instead of losing gold, a player who is killed has a *chance* of permanently breaking a piece of their gear. If it's a piece from one of the rvr sets then they have to buy it again with medallions/emblems and if it's a piece earned via zone inf then you are out of luck. The stalker pieces can already be gotten again of you lose one so that's already taken care of. The chance for breakage to occur could also scale with one's level so that the higher lvl you are the greater risk you have. This could help low-lvl players in each tier so that 1.) they aren't at greater risk since they will naturally die a lot more and 2.) it *could* help narrow the power gap somewhat in each tier. I do not feel that the penalty should apply in sc's though.

As far as this type of thing encouraging zergs, I actually don't totally agree with that. People will zerg either way if they have the numbers to do so. What I feel a death penalty would do is discourage people from mindlessly running out of the wc one at a time (like Destro seems to love to do) and instead rally up and move in a more strategic way. It may also cause pug groups to be more aware of their buffing and guarding of other players. Too often buffs and guard aren't happening at all or are being applied lazily and/or not very effectively. I think making death more serious would make orvr more fun, personally.

[Sulorie]

It's no waste of money if you avoid dying in the first place. They should increase the fee to punish suiciders.

[bwdaWAR]

Death penalty makes sense in a PvE game, not in a PvP game. In the first, your enviroment and opposition is highly predictable, so death comes from a mistake, plus it discourages endless retries without any change in tactics. PvE is essentially a puzzle with some minimal randomization that your group has to solve. The NPCs are never meant to win, just to give you a challenge. Everything depends on you only (and your team).
In PvP, your enemy isn't controlled by a script, and you have no choice in which power or complexity level of monsters/bosses you want to take on. Both sides are meant to be equal in overall power and chance to win, so death is expected to happen every once in a while no matter how good you are, as a matter of fact the game balance is quite poor if you're literally invincible. There is a reason healers get a resurrection pretty early on, with only a 5 second cooldown which isn't exactly harsh, more of a way to prevent literal spamming. And if you have to respawn, the walk back to where the action is (and the potential vulnerability for being without your team) should be enough of a penalty.
Death penalties would discourage people from taking risks, especially those roles that are more risky and thus prone to dying than others. It would also increase the power gap between the top tier rank twinked gear builds and the new characters in the tier, since the first group is always harder to kill, plus they likely have more resources to replace losses of any kind. The rich get richer and so on...

Also, the live penalty for respawning, not dying. Stacking 10% health debuff, 15 mins for PvE, 5 mins for PvP. And as many people pointed out, the healer right next to where you spawned made this only really hurt new players who had no money yet (or casual players who don't have time for farming).

[Tiggo]

Scenarios:
5s respawn is to less imho. should be 30s.

ORvR:
i think that resurrection should be very limited in orvr especially in keeps. (i even think there should be no res skill available in keep range or a res should take 30s or something).

[Sizer]

These included:

- Every death resulting in the loss of a small amount of gold, enough to hit one's wallet if you insist on doing it on a regular basis. Maybe 5 - 10 gold per death, which is distributed amongst the players of the enemy warband or party. Since the gold is still in circulation and doesn't simply vanish, it would be quite possible to earn it all back if you take care.

But Gold should vanish. At the moment the total amount of gold on the server will rise and rise which means that the prices at auction house will rise, too. And that hurt new players. Or at some point gold don´t matter anything and so nobody would sell stuff at auction house amd so player who don´t invest time in crafting have problems to get potions, talismans etc.

Another point I don´t like about your suggestion is, that some players will lose more often than they win (basic principle in pvp-game ) and that will cost them a lot of gold with the prices you suggest.

They should make it like on live-servers with low cost for healing the death debuff. Maybe only for t3 and t4.

Pretty much this. As much as this isnt a pve game, it still has an economy and that economy needs gold sinks. EIther a death penalty or something else ought to be put in to make up for it. I dont love the death penalty concept, gives people more excuses to hide in the wc when theyre outnumbered, but it worked, and if you take it out something would have to replace it.

If they do put in a death penalty it would be nice if it doesnt apply to people with aao. That way it wouldnt stop people from trying.

[Reesh]

Warhammer never was and never will be an hardcore grind mmo like lineage 2, where 90% of your time was preparation for combat and the rest, actual pvping. While at it, you were being constantly scared of your life, because of huge death penalties.

Implementing any sort of death punishment, will discourage pugs and casual gamers from constantly trying to fight the opposition and become better.

I don't approve any kind of that stuff.

[demonll]

Agree with Torguemadra.

Increase penalty for dying is a terrible idea.

Many players can't stand the thought of dying - hence on live we had triple potting, odjira + quick escape, mirror of madness, stag cloak etc to avoid it. The knowledge of being killed by player X, Y, Z is enough.

Those that don't care make up the playerbase, someone to kill, someone to group with etc. Why risk premade syndrome (players afraid to come out without their perfect premade group)?

If you must do something then make something like Dammaz Kron but more public. Leaderboards, performance over past 100 scenarios etc. Probably won't be possible for the devs to do though.