The problem with gold...

[Shandar]

Hey all !

Some thoughts about the gold issue we have atm (specifically on Order side, don't know what the situation is on destro).

So in the previous patches, devs announced they had fixed a gold duping exploit and also decreased the gold earned with the repeatable rvr kill quests to prevent the gold inflation.

Now we're down to this: gold exploiters are full of gold. Players who got lucky enough to get very rare item drops were able to sell them at insane prices so they're full of gold as well. Which means a small amount of players rule the market for top items. For example, brigand's waraxe for dwarfs is around 500 gold in AH and level 20 purple talis start around 150 gold...

Now for the vast majority of players I believe, these prices are unaffordable because rare items and talis became so common after such a long time stuck in t3 they're not worth much. So we can't get enough gold to buy those very rare items. Even pot crafting and selling became less lucrative as more and more people do it and the supply is high (a stack of level 32 pots go for around 4 gold).

The only way to get gold up was to do the repeatable rvr kill quests which would grant around 5 gold 50 silver for a full swipe of quest turn in (flight master prices deducted). And now this got reduced as well.

So what to do? Either we keep it as it is and those shiny items will be forever out of reach. Until t4 comes out and then they won't be worth anything anymore anyways. Or maybe a full gold wipe with gold set at around 50 for each account would reset those insane prices and wipe the effects of the previous gold exploiters? Or maybe even reduce the impact of gold posession by increasing gold rewards all around the game or increase very rare drop rates to increase supply?

Interested in hearing your thoughts on the matter.

[Foxbeep]

I believe the devs have already stated they would devote more time to the matter and I think RyanMakara stated in another thread plans to return the kill quest rewards to a respectable percentage of their original amount.

I think it was
20 kills - 35s
25 kills - 40s
150 kills - 1.5g

I think the thread was called Cash Rules Everything Around Me
((CREAM!))

[Gobtar]

I previously put my thoughts on the economics of WAR:ROR here:

http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... 6&start=60

The major problem with the economy is there isn't enough things to buy, we need more purchasable consumables, this does not need to be strictly from the Auction house either, Warmachines, Rams, Keep claiming all are great equalizers and as long as there is great incentives, the rich will want to spend their money on these things.

Problem is, there has been duping, which is basically counterfeiting because you can sell an infinite amount of goods, because NPCs have an infinite bank of money. Gold is actually largely irrelevant as it stands right now, you need it for flying, respecing, buying a mount, and at r32 about 16 talisman tops.

Most players once they hit 32 would stop doing the quests as aggressively, because XP was the largest factor in doing the quests, once you hit 32 you were sitting at about 100 or 200 gold, you don't have to worry as much about spending money on consumables, but you wouldn't be able to afford a constant supply of premium pots/ talismans.

Now, it should be noted I don't think wealth is a bad thing, and I don't think wipes are the best way of dealing with a duping problem, but even if there wasn't a duping problem, I would still call for a wipe over x-amount when integrating guild claiming and warmachine purchases. This is when gold becomes relevant again, and you need to address those characters that have a near infinite amount of funds.

This wipe over X gold can be integrated with a live event where Skaven has launched a twin attack on both the IC and Altdorf, the cities are reeling from the attack, the banks have been looted, and the city is still closed due to plague and reconstruction. The surplus of warmachines that had been made ready for the wareffort likewise has been destroyed, and the realm will need additional funds whenever an army wishes to Requisition these commodities. Each realm makes motions to defend their specialty goods within keeps, in order to keep them safe while the cities are recovering from the razing. Doing this adds a real benefit to keeping keeps defended, and makes keeps a desirable place to be stationed as cities can't be attacked directly, there is no danger for just sitting in your capital.

I would also put mail boxes, and all kill quests inside keeps, but have them relocate to the Warcamp after the keep has been taken. (maybe not all the NPCs, just a couple, some are wounded in the keep take)

[Shandar]

These are the values currently implemented. I'll check that post out, thanks

[Waaghaa]

Well for starters. I have had items for sale in AH since early T2, now it's just crap items mind you but the point is that AH items should not be in there for so long, it should be a maximum of what? 48 hours at most?

Now anyone that puts anything into AH for 500 gold, does not expect the item to be sold immediately, I am guessing that he / she is using AH as an extra bankslot and if someone buys the item for 500 gold its just win win.

The solution to down the prices in AH is fix the amount of time an item can be in AH before it has to be renewed and increase the AH cut for items that has buyout over 100 gold, to let us say 20% ?

These 2 changes would probably drop the prices rapidly.

[hogo2hogo]

So... fair points have been raised so far but unfortunately they focus on the wrong side of the problem.

By getting a full gold wipe I think you eliminate the effort/skill/luck/dedication/market situation that players take advantage of.
For example, i frequently travel for business purposes and i cannot use my main computer to play RoR. However I do use my 6-7 year old laptop without a mouse and play RoR because I can. However, I dont usually do rvr/sc because spikes and lag prevent me from using any decent spells other than aoe and thus i go pve, farming, butchering, scavenging. I have gained plenty of gold thanks to this in the last one month and more often than not i sell my items either at AH or much cheaper than AH. Never cheated, never used exploits, and sometimes even taken advantage of.

I see my time PVEing and w/e with gold increasing as an investment for T4 or for my charity event on my birthday (lol). I dont think players that like to do that for gold should be punished for some exploiters.

I could go the other extreme with the -few players dominate the market/high items- and say that ''only good players get the good items because they form premades and kill most people so they get more chances to get loot bla bla bla'' therefore all purple-epic items should be reset. I hope that most people will realize the false reasoning in that ''argument''.

I vote in favor of punishing exploiters or anything, but against punishing good pve-farming people (and of course myself included )

Sorry for the long post, but money makes the world go round

[Shandar]

Well for starters. I have had items for sale in AH since early T2, now it's just crap items mind you but the point is that AH items should not be in there for so long, it should be a maximum of what? 48 hours at most?

Now anyone that puts anything into AH for 500 gold, does not expect the item to be sold immediately, I am guessing that he / she is using AH as an extra bankslot and if someone buys the item for 500 gold its just win win.

The solution to down the prices in AH is fix the amount of time an item can be in AH before it has to be renewed and increase the AH cut for items that has buyout over 100 gold, to let us say 20% ?

These 2 changes would probably drop the prices rapidly.

Looks like we're currently on a 28 day auction renewal. Lowering it to 48h like on live or just a couple of days might solve the issue as you said.

[Gobtar]

Well for starters. I have had items for sale in AH since early T2, now it's just crap items mind you but the point is that AH items should not be in there for so long, it should be a maximum of what? 48 hours at most?

Now anyone that puts anything into AH for 500 gold, does not expect the item to be sold immediately, I am guessing that he / she is using AH as an extra bankslot and if someone buys the item for 500 gold its just win win.

The solution to down the prices in AH is fix the amount of time an item can be in AH before it has to be renewed and increase the AH cut for items that has buyout over 100 gold, to let us say 20% ?

These 2 changes would probably drop the prices rapidly.

Basically you want to add an tangible overhead cost, problem is this, the seller will invariable transfer the added cost of selling an item to the buyer. knowing that the seller now needs to put more effort into keeping their goods available,
the seller will charge more, to cover their new costs.

the stable demand will insure that this items that will still be bought, also the fact that the market might have less goods to sell due to a time out means that there will be less competition for their goods. less supply means an added increase in the item.

This will also hurt those that want to peddle green gear, which isn't really a note-worthy venture, but helps those starting off, and those goods are being sold to players rather than NPCs. Your suggestions will effect premium items, for entry level sellers, it will not hurt established sellers, doing this will make it harder to enter the market as a premium item seller, until they have a pool of funds to bank on.


The other thing this will do is promote a trade chat: which isn't a bad thing.

[Gobtar]

@Hogo I am not calling for a full gold wipe, I think the surplus of wealth needs to be addressed before implementing the ability to purchase warmachines and claim keeps. Both factions have had an unprecedented amount of wealth considering they are at war, and this is because no real money is being spent on the war effort, you don't need to spend money to repair or reinforce keeps, or repair cities or repair rent armour and weapons. If there is a way to deal with those that benefited with duping I am sure the devs will endeavour to do so.

[Vdova]

Even I have 50-100g on each of my character I have no issue with full gold wipe. Prices for blue/purple talis and blue/purple items will go back to norm, because since T3 is out, prices of talis are multipled by 8 - 10x. For example when T3 was out for a week or 2, I have bought purple 20 strenght talisman for 15-20g each. Now price for the same talisman doesnt goes under 150g which is insane.

If major bugs which allowed gold/item dupe is gone, I would welcome gold wipe with open arms.